Klingon Imperial Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
12 11, 2017, 05:12: PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Realtime chats are now following a freeform schedule.  If you would like to chat with you fellows please see the It's Talk Time thread for more info or to schedule a chat.
11894 Posts in 1664 Topics by 689 Members
Latest Member: regdun234
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  Klingon Imperial Forums
|-+  Klingon Arts and Media
| |-+  Klingon Poetry and Short Stories
| | |-+  Klingon Short Stories
| | | |-+  Comments on "A Moment of Doubt"
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Comments on "A Moment of Doubt"  (Read 8667 times)
Kesvirit
Her Nibbs
Administrator
Thought Master
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1122


That which does not kill me, must have missed me.


WWW
« on: 06 26, 2005, 10:24: AM »

Quote
quoth Brian_Starr Jun 24 2005, 01:13 AM in the Klingon Names thread:
Other names, including my current one, Krieg, are from my current story which you can read on this site. (hint-hint) They are corruptions of German words, which I think sound very guttural like Klingon.
Your hint has been received, and I have been working on a critique. It is one of many, many posts in progress languishing idle and neglected on my hard drive.

Quote
I think it would make a fine Fan Film, but want your criticism and advice. Please remember that while everyone likes to hear compliments, the work can only improve with honest opinions. Rake me over the coals, I can take it.
A commendable attitude.  Anyone exposing their work for public review must be able to take the criticism with the compliments.  I expect nothing else from a Klingon writer.

Caveat: I have had more experience with beta-reading prose fiction than I have with screenplay formats; you may decide that many of my comments are not applicable to your project.

Having said that, I think that the script would make more of an impression if you added more descriptions and stage directions to the dialogue.  This would be to your disadvantage and something to be avoided if you were actually shopping the script around to potential agents/directors/producers. But since this is a fan film, and if produced will most likely entail the crew doing double duty on the design elements, more details might give the designers more from which to work.

Quote
Captain WAR(war) sits in his command chair. He is old for a warrior. Five other Klingons are at their stations, including one female, K’schNit(slash). She is young and volupous.
Why are you concentrating on K’schNit’s appearance while not describing how the other characters look?  Noting that WAR “is old for a warrior” is relevant to the script as it is a basis for the challenge that forms the bulk of the story.  Pointing out that K’schNit is female, young, and voluptouous is not.

Unless and until it is vital to the story elsewhere, omit  it.  As it stands, it adds nothing to the narrative, is superfluous, and introduces a tokenism that will diminish the credibility of the script.  In this story she is a warrior and a member of Krieg’s crew, no more, no less, just like her shipmates.

Quote
She stands behind WAR to the left at a console. To the right rear is a male Klingon, Zorn(anger), at his console. Between the consoles is the main hatch. To the forward of WAR, from right to left are three, Jugend (youth), Flier(flyer) and Ungeduld(impatience). AMBITION(ambition) enters through the main hatch and moves to Zorn.
Good symbolism with the names!  You will have to make sure that your director has the actors play their parts in a manner strongly in keeping with the meaning of their names.

You may wish to change the equating of Glaub with “trust”.  Glauben primarily means “to think, to believe (in something/that something is true)”.  If you want this character’s name to show that he is trusting or trustworthy, I recommend you go with Trauend or one of its many varitions.

A minor quibble: according to  this German<->English dictionary,the German “Flyer” takes a ‘y’ instead of an ‘i’.

Again, I would argue against K’schNit’s name breaking the pattern used by the others unless it is integral to the plot.  Either use Okrand’s orthography or don’t use it -- be as consistant in your spelling as the English(/German) aphabet allows.  Don’t randomly throw capital letters and apostrophes into the mix in an attempt to make it “look more Klingon”.  Click here for other variations and permutations on “schnit”.

Above all, I recommend that you run your final choices by ngabwI’. He is fluent in things Klingon and German.

An easy way to try out new names for compatability  -- AFTER making a backup of the original -- is to use the Find/Change feature of your word processing program.  To the best of my knowledge, Find/Change is usually located under the Edit drag-down at the very top of the screen.  Re-read the script with different names entered to see if their meanings match the actions of their characters.

As for the script itself, it requires more attention than I have given it. Check back in... in...
::Consults personal duty log. Scribbles things in, crosses them out. Repeats. Scowls at schedule, crushes it, and tosses it to pet Fluffy. Fluffy fields it midair, gulps it down, and belches in appreciation.::
Some time next week.

You may also wish to subscribe to this thread. Future members may be adding  to it many seasons from now.

-=- Kesvirit
« Last Edit: 06 26, 2005, 10:27: AM by Kesvirit » Logged

Richard the Sound Guy: "And the next person to lecture me about canon risks getting shot out of one! Right, gaffers?"
Gaffers make appreciative and supportive remarks in the form of bad imitations of primate calls from the direction of the lighting grids.
Abbot Nej vIt
Highly Opinionated Klingon
Thought Master
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 761


"I Will Take the Conquerer Ceasers Salad... Now!"


« Reply #1 on: 06 26, 2005, 04:06: PM »

Brian,
 I Am Very Suprised that I am the First to Respond to this... But Here Goes...

This Looks Pretty Short, (Like a Few Scenes of a Potentially Larger Story?), but Perhaps that is What you are Wanting to do... In Which Case I Will State that I Like it Over all... But You Did Not Post this Here to have Your Ego Stroked... You Want Criticism From a Klingon Perspective in Order To Improve Your Script, Not dry words of encouragement...

I Enjoyed the Imagery of The Discussion Between The Aging Klingon Captain and his Dead Warrior Father... That was Poetic, and Well Written...

I Also Liked the Insertion of Bits and Pieces if the Warriors Way into the Script, this added "Familiarity" and Gave it a Klingon Sense of Voracity...

What I am Not Sure I Like is the Over All Concept of the Captain Turning What Should be a Direct Challange For Leadership by a Junior Officer, Into a Chase/Hunt... It is Melodramatic as the Principle Story Line... I Do Not Have any Real Advice on This Since it is Your Story, and the Whole Thing Centers on this Point... But I Think that the Only way the Captain Could Have Survived as Long as He had in Command, Would be If He Regularly Proved His Worthyness to Lead... I Would think that this Would Happen More Frequently the Older a Senior Officer Gets, Not Less Commonly...

Further Although Clever, (And again Well Written), The Idea of Using Gas on his Troops, Or Even Anticipating the Need for it and Preparing an Antidote Suggests that this Captain has Too Much in Common With Romulans... Such Tactics are Highly Questionable in a Senior Klingon Officer...

In Any Event, Plot Issues Aside, I Enjoyed the Style of Your Writing Very Much...
Logged

Archbishop Nej vIt SutaI-H'Nter,
Spiritual Advisor to K.L.A.W. 4th Fleet,
Abbot, Dugh toy'wI' Library
Brian_Starr
Scribe
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12



« Reply #2 on: 06 26, 2005, 08:08: PM »

Thank you for your comments.  They were exactly what I was looking for.

Quote
Captain WAR(war) sits in his command chair. He is old for a warrior.

It does say “Krieg” as the name of the main character, doesn’t it?

Quote
Why are you concentrating on K’schNit’s appearance while not describing how the other characters look?

It is important to me to establish she is NOT an old warrior.  Also, this is a direction to the Producer to look for a young good looking female, not the first girl he can talk into putting on makeup.  Maybe I should have added a note that Jugend is also young, fresh from the Klingon academy.

Quote
You may wish to change the equating of Glaub with “trust”. Glauben primarily means “to think, to believe (in something/that something is true)”.

I think Glaub trusts his current Captain, and so he does not join the hunt.  The Captain and the Chief Engineer share a relationship like all old comrades in arms.

Quote
A minor quibble: according to this German<->English dictionary,the German “Flyer” takes a ‘y’ instead of an ‘i’. Again, I would argue against K’schNit’s name breaking the pattern used by the others unless it is integral to the plot. Either use Okrand’s orthography or don’t use it -- be as consistant in your spelling as the English(/German) aphabet allows. Don’t randomly throw capital letters and apostrophes into the mix in an attempt to make it “look more Klingon”.

Actually, I was using some notes on how to speak Klingon when I made the names.  I also posted it here to get someone to look if I got them right, LoL.  A “y” isn’t really the sound I’m looking for.  I pay homage to the German, but want it to sound Klingon.  Same with K’schNit.  It should sound “Ka sch Nit”  Perhaps you are right, it should be spelled “Q’Snit”  A little like the sound a blade makes when it cuts something.

Quote
Further Although Clever, (And again Well Written), The Idea of Using Gas on his Troops, Or Even Anticipating the Need for it and Preparing an Antidote Suggests that this Captain has Too Much in Common With Romulans... Such Tactics are Highly Questionable in a Senior Klingon Officer...

Krieg is confronted by three or more very bored Klingons.  On a long mission with nothing happening, they are tired of doing nothing, and just want some excitement.  Krieg knows this, and doubts his ability to stand up to them all at once.  He must isolate them so he can challenge them one at a time.  Also, he has anticipated this. As Captain, he has watched the tension grow.  Old age and trechery will over come youth and skill.  Krieg still has a few tricks up his sleeve that they don’t know because experience has taught him.

Still, I wanted to start this project to entertain all the Klingons out there.  If it really doesn’t ring true, perhaps I should change it.  Please keep those comments coming in.  Thanks!
 
« Last Edit: 06 29, 2005, 09:04: PM by Brian_Starr » Logged
Brian_Starr
Scribe
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12



« Reply #3 on: 09 08, 2005, 04:34: AM »

Quote
What I am Not Sure I Like is the Over All Concept of the Captain Turning What Should be a Direct Challange For Leadership by a Junior Officer, Into a Chase/Hunt... It is Melodramatic as the Principle Story Line...

Well, it wouldn't be much of a story if Klingon A tries to beat up Klingon B now would it?  Why is the conflict happening?  How can the Captain win and still gain the respect he needs to maintain discipline in his crew?  Unlike a Feddy ship, a Klingon has to keep a firm grasp on his crew or they will challenge him.  He has the authority of life or death while he is still top dog.  He wrestles with his own doubts while relieving the tension of his crew.  He puts them in their place and reaffirms both their respect for his authority and his own self respect.

Many people wish to view Klingons as one dimensional beings.  Often at conventions I see Klingons in great costumes destroying their efforts by looming over people and grunting.  Being Klingon isn’t about getting in a Feddy’s face and making them uncomfortable.  It is more about showing honor.  I want to explore this side of Klingon life.  That and write a darn fine Klingon fan film.

I’ll let “Trekkies” show the bazaar Klingons, I want to show the depth of a Klingon war ship.

Come on folks, tell me if this worked, what you liked or disliked.
Logged
Kesvirit
Her Nibbs
Administrator
Thought Master
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1122


That which does not kill me, must have missed me.


WWW
« Reply #4 on: 09 08, 2005, 11:44: PM »

Quote
Well, it wouldn't be much of a story if Klingon A tries to beat up Klingon B now would it?

Why not? Klingons are, in general, a competitive and contentious lot. One would expect to find conflict of some sort on every level. Conflict is certainly nothing new -- it is how you show that conflict that determines whether or not you will succeed in creating a story that holds the reader/viewer.

I spent more time going over it during the boards’ downtime. Now that I have given this script the attention it deserves...
It is difficult to go by just a script  because lines can be delivered in so many different ways. Additional stage directions, or better yet, storyboards, will help a lot with that.    

Overall I would recommend that you tone down the speech of your characters and make it a bit more “everyday” in tone. Yes, Klingons are supposed to be bold and sure of themselves and whatnot, but reading this brings to mind the BlackAdder III episode "Sense and Sensibility" -- the idiotic Prince Regent brings in two effeminate, effete stage actors to teach him how to “proclaim” and “roar”. The actors did so using ridiculous poses and overblown dialogue. It was hilarious, and you do not want your Klingons to come across in such a fashion. To do so would cross the line into self-parody. If you go with the dialogue as is, your director will have to keep a strong hold on your actors.


Quote
quoth Abbot Nej vIt: I Enjoyed the Imagery of The Discussion Between The Aging Klingon Captain and his Dead Warrior Father... That was Poetic, and Well Written...

I Also Liked the Insertion of Bits and Pieces if the Warriors Way into the Script, this added "Familiarity" and Gave it a Klingon Sense of Voracity...

I am guessing that such instances of canon were used to give a sense of legitimacy to the project. If you do end up working further on the script, as the Abbot suggests, why not build upon these references by developing them further? Add your own details of customs to the mix. I think this will give both your story and your characters more depth. qoSagh writes in the Klingon Weddings thread:
Quote
I always try not to use a single source for Klingon ceremonies, if for no other reason than the fact that I don't want someone comming up and saying "ooooo I know where you copied that from".
I recommend that you stir your own original flourishes into the mix, if for no other reason then that potential readers/viewers won’t be distracted from taking in your film by playing “place that reference” (the visions of a dead father, the StoVoKor death howl, etc.)


Quote
quoth Abbot Nej vIt: The Idea of Using Gas on his Troops, Or Even Anticipating the Need for it and Preparing an Antidote Suggests that this Captain has Too Much in Common With Romulans... Such Tactics are Highly Questionable in a Senior Klingon Officer...

Nonsense. I agree with Brian_Star’s rebuttal here. It is neither questionable nor particularly Romulan to anticipate and plan ahead for challenges to one’s authority, particularly with a largely idle and impatient crew. Krieg may well have had help from the Chief Engineer in setting up such a contingency plan, which would both test and reinforce their relationship.


Quote
quoth Brian Starr: It is important to me to establish she is NOT an old warrior.

Then simply state that she is a young warrior, perhaps adding that she is inexperienced in the ideals vs realities of active combat duty.

Quote
quoth Brian Starr: Also, this is a direction to the Producer to look for a young good looking female, not the first girl he can talk into putting on makeup.

I take it the one is new to both film and show business.  As if producers and casting directors will look for anything else without explicit, strongly worded, enforceable instructions to do so.

Here, also, we come up against the Dictum of the Phone: If a phone is prominently featured in a shot -- the camera slows when coming to it when it pans across the shot, or the phone had its own shot or “close-up”, etc -- that phone had better ring. And the more attention shown to that phone, the more puch to the story that phone call should have. Ultimately any script belongs to the director. Writers are outranked by directors. If the writer thinks a stage direction is important enough to stress it with the written word, that bit of stage business (or other scene element) -- in this case, details of a character’s physical description -- had also better be very important. Insistance on too many “very importants” can turn a director/producer off of both a script and its author. The prevailing aesthetics and values ensure that with the exception of the occasional strong character role, any actress considered will be as young and good looking as credibility can be strained in the willing suspension of disbelief. }}: \


Quote
quoth Brian_Star: Actually, I was using some notes on how to speak Klingon when I made the names. I also posted it here to get someone to look if I got them right, LoL. A “y” isn’t really the sound I’m looking for. I pay homage to the German, but want it to sound Klingon. Same with K’schNit. It should sound “Ka sch Nit” Perhaps you are right, it should be spelled “Q’Snit” A little like the sound a blade makes when it cuts something.

The closest Okrand orthography for that would be {qa S nIt}, or {qaSunIt} if you want one word. (Some may quibble with my Okrandian transliteration. Let the quibbling begin!)

-=- Kesvirit
Logged

Richard the Sound Guy: "And the next person to lecture me about canon risks getting shot out of one! Right, gaffers?"
Gaffers make appreciative and supportive remarks in the form of bad imitations of primate calls from the direction of the lighting grids.
Brian_Starr
Scribe
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12



« Reply #5 on: 09 11, 2005, 04:07: AM »

First, thanks for adding something to the comments.  I want to get the comments from people who are more familier with Klingons than I am.

Quote
Well, it wouldn't be much of a story if Klingon A tries to beat up Klingon B now would it?

Why not? Klingons are, in general, a competitive and contentious lot. One would expect to find conflict of some sort on every level. Conflict is certainly nothing new -- it is how you show that conflict that determines whether or not you will succeed in creating a story that holds the reader/viewer.

Well, we have humans watching, so it kinda has to fit their thought patterns as well, LoL.

Quote
I recommend that you stir your own original flourishes into the mix, if for no other reason then that potential readers/viewers won’t be distracted from taking in your film by playing “place that reference” (the visions of a dead father, the StoVoKor death howl, etc.)

That is an idea, but I have also seen way too many people mess with good material "just to add their bit"  Think Robin Hood: The Prince of Thieves.  I'd have to keep it fairly close to believable, this is really intended for the Klingon fan audience.  Also, I need to learn more about the Klingon frame of referance before I start mucking up with the culture.

Quote
I take it the one is new to both film and show business.  As if producers and casting directors will look for anything else without explicit, strongly worded, enforceable instructions to do so.

LoL, you are probably correct here, but I am familier with the Fan Films.  Fat chicks abound.  Some Fan Film Directors will use any girl they can talk into putting on a costume and agreeing to have thier picture taken.  Whatever I put down, you are correct that they will use what they feel is best, or just plain available.  Better a fat chick than no chick.  (NOTE: I have nothing really against overweight ladies, my wife, er, I better not go there.)

Please, anyone, comment on the story.  I need your insights more than any other type of Star Trek Fan.

Also, does anyone remember the name of the Voyager episode where they find the Klingon religious cult?  Or the one with the Klingons who took over a borg vessel?  I'd like to rewatch them for more referance material.  Thanks
Logged
Kesvirit
Her Nibbs
Administrator
Thought Master
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1122


That which does not kill me, must have missed me.


WWW
« Reply #6 on: 09 12, 2005, 03:05: AM »

Quote
Well, we have humans watching, so it kinda has to fit their thought patterns as well, LoL.

Your film will be more effective if you make the alien audience stretch to understand Klingon thought patterns. If, of course, you are serious about your film being “really intended for the Klingon fan audience”.

Quote
That is an idea, but I have also seen way too many people mess with good material "just to add their bit"  Think Robin Hood: The Prince of Thieves.  I'd have to keep it fairly close to believable, this is really intended for the Klingon fan audience.  Also, I need to learn more about the Klingon frame of referance before I start mucking up with the culture.

In any artistic undertaking, I believe it is the added bits that bring the piece to life (or at least allow for that possibility). Without it, one is merely rehashing and regurgitating old material that others have encountered ad nauseum.  As I quoted qoSagh as saying somewhere above, “I always try not to use a single source for Klingon ceremonies, if for no other reason than the fact that I don't want someone comming up and saying ‘ooooo I know where you copied that from’.”  

Also, without building on what you have seen on the screen, you end up with the bazaar Klingons you disparage. I’m not talking about rewriting the foundation material of Klingon mythos, as I understand many fans thought Costner did with his Robin Hood film. But if you fail to do the necessary work you will end up with Kookie Kutter Klingons not worthy of their uniforms or the audience’s time.

You say you want to show the depth of a Klingon war ship. One cannot show depth without some degree of innovation. Showing depth involves revealing new things to your audience.

Quote
I am familier with the Fan Films.  Fat chicks abound.  Some Fan Film Directors will use any girl they can talk into putting on a costume and agreeing to have thier picture taken.  Whatever I put down, you are correct that they will use what they feel is best, or just plain available.  Better a fat chick than no chick.  (NOTE: I have nothing really against overweight ladies, my wife, er, I better not go there.)

You realize you had best not go there and say so for all to hear, yet have just done so anyway... This puzzles me. Your wife will be the least of your worries here if you continue to proclaim your contempt for “fat chicks” on these boards. Seeing as how you are asking for their combined experience and insight into the Klingon “frame of reference” -- a formidable and valuable resource --  you will want to show a bit more respect for them as the authorities they are. Beware that these females do not feed you false information just to enjoy the sight of you twisting in the wind.

The Voyager episode is #260,  7x14, “Prophesy”. I do not recall any instances of Klingons taking over a Borg ship. Though that does not mean such a thing did not happen... Does anyone else know?

-=- Kesvirit
Logged

Richard the Sound Guy: "And the next person to lecture me about canon risks getting shot out of one! Right, gaffers?"
Gaffers make appreciative and supportive remarks in the form of bad imitations of primate calls from the direction of the lighting grids.
Klythe
ngem Sargh lIghwI' pagh cha'
Administrator
Thought Master
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1071


When a show of teeth doesn't work, bite deeply.


WWW
« Reply #7 on: 09 12, 2005, 05:12: AM »

Quote
Many people wish to view Klingons as one dimensional beings.  Often at conventions I see Klingons in great costumes destroying their efforts by looming over people and grunting.  Being Klingon isn’t about getting in a Feddy’s face and making them uncomfortable.  It is more about showing honor.  I want to explore this side of Klingon life.  That and write a darn fine Klingon fan film.

I’ll let “Trekkies” show the bazaar Klingons, I want to show the depth of a Klingon war ship.


    Here here!  I entirely agree.

Quote
That is an idea, but I have also seen way too many people mess with good material "just to add their bit"  Think Robin Hood: The Prince of Thieves.  I'd have to keep it fairly close to believable, this is really intended for the Klingon fan audience.  Also, I need to learn more about the Klingon frame of referance before I start mucking up with the culture.

    Whoa... What happened to exploring?  You aren't exploring if you are merely retreading over where others have been before.  If you feel lost, you are at the right place, I dare say we discuss as much Klingon culture as anywhere else on the net.  Spend some time reading the treads here and asking questions of your own. 

Quote
Come on folks, tell me if this worked, what you liked or disliked.

Well, you did ask...

   It doesn't work for me as a 'this just happened' story.  There are far too many holes to cover in one thread and it is a bit on the preachy side.   But, I think it would work much better as a morality tale, told by an aged K’schNit (or Jungend) to her(or his) granchildren.  This will grant you l broader license as they story is supposed to have at least one moral.  If you have to delete a scene to make room for the intro and outtro, I'd remove the vision quest.  That scene is entirely exposition which could be more active scenes

    Even then, there are still a few more problems I see in the story.

Quote
INT. CAVE DAY
K’schNit finds Jugend asleep.  Krieg catches her off guard.  He holds knife to her throat.  Jugend watches nerviously, but does not interfere.
K’SCHNIT:   Commander, I remain loyal, I have only come to bear witness to what occurs.
KRIEG:       Prove it!
K’SCHNIT:  If I were not, you would be dead already.

K’schNit nods to the knife she holds to Krieg’s belly.  Krieg sees it...

     I saw that scene in Dune, and I don't know how many other movies...   And besides, since when did holding a knife to someone's belly while they have one to your throat prove you are loyal.   If I was QIy'Igh(Krieg) my next line would be "That only proves you are slower or you hesitated, signs of weakness, not loyalty".   I know how I would rewrite the scene to work for me , but it is not my story.

    You need to treat your characters with a bit more consistancy.   qa'SI'nIt(K'schnit) feels free to tell  'erghIy'Iz(EHRGEIZ) that what he's doing is stupid, but she doesn't dare stick up for herself when he calls her a wench?

    Where you are consistant it gets painful...  He jumps everyone except for the final bad guy...  That strains credibility and erodes the strength of your protagonist.
Logged
qoSagh
Warrior Bard of the Ontological
Thought Master
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166



WWW
« Reply #8 on: 09 12, 2005, 09:41: PM »

I have yet to read the story, I hope to get to it on my days off. I had to laugh at the "fat chicks" mini-thread, as I have had this debate verbally at many conventions. I would say this, if we assume for a minute that random does indeed abound with fat chicks, then I would think that random is exactly the place one would not want to insult those same fat chicks. As for specific casting directions, I think unless it is central to the character, it should be left out, if only so that it doesn't tie the hands of the production later on in casting. If there is no need for the character to be thin, then why can't she be fat? If there are no scenes that require her to reach things on high shelves, she need not be tall.

As for fleshing out the culture, that is exactly what makes klingons fun for me. What would these forums be if we did not expand and debate on matters of Klingon culture. Pretty darn (see I am learning) boring, if you ask me. I would apply the same standard to the film, if you do not take on the culture then you simply become boring and repetitious.

I also like the idea of the story being told in a flashback. I have among my unfinished projects a Klingon play that uses the device to tell a morality story. Someday I will finish it, but I digress. Much of what we have seen of Klingons is the telling and retelling of stories, so this method would be consistant with what we know to be Klingon.
Logged

qoSagh qlIStIy
meycha of the qaptaQ www.qaptaQ.org
Prothonotary of the Desert Rite
"I would kill the children of a thousand planets, just to see you smile."
Brian_Starr
Scribe
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 12



« Reply #9 on: 09 14, 2005, 01:55: AM »

Quote
  I saw that scene in Dune, and I don't know how many other movies...   And besides, since when did holding a knife to someone's belly while they have one to your throat prove you are loyal.   If I was QIy'Igh(Krieg) my next line would be "That only proves you are slower or you hesitated, signs of weakness, not loyalty".   I know how I would rewrite the scene to work for me , but it is not my story.

Ooooo, I like that!  Just the reason I brought my story to you guys.  I want something that tells a good story.  Can I use that?  PLEASE?

Flashback framing story:  Humm, good idea, but I will have to think on it.  The main story is Krieg dealing with getting old, hince the vision quest.  I don't want to deflect from that.  Perhaps if Krieg told the story....

I appoligize to any body who is a little heavy.  i myself am large.  You can play any part in the film BUT qa'SI'nIt(K'schnit).  Heck, Krieg is supposed to be a big (large) guy.
Logged
qoSagh
Warrior Bard of the Ontological
Thought Master
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166



WWW
« Reply #10 on: 09 14, 2005, 05:17: AM »

OK, I got a chance to read it. Well done. I thought it was going to be longer. I didn't think the vision quest took that much time away from the main action. I do think I can see where the wrap around could go, if you decide on the flashback idea. Kreig can be telling the story to someone about how he thought he was to old to fight, and now many years later he is still fighting. Perhaps he can be telling the story on the eve of a large battle. Just some random ideas.
Logged

qoSagh qlIStIy
meycha of the qaptaQ www.qaptaQ.org
Prothonotary of the Desert Rite
"I would kill the children of a thousand planets, just to see you smile."
Klythe
ngem Sargh lIghwI' pagh cha'
Administrator
Thought Master
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1071


When a show of teeth doesn't work, bite deeply.


WWW
« Reply #11 on: 09 15, 2005, 04:49: AM »

    If you can use it feel free...  But I think that may put you in a bind in that she still has to prove her loyalty.   I don't know why this is so hard for other Klingons.  I know many ways how I would demonstrate loyalty, and holding someone at the point of a knife is not one.   Loyalty when your 'superior' has a knife at your throat is not loyalty at all.  Desperation, will to live, common sense, maybe all three or seomthing else, but it isn't loyalty.

    Kreig is old in the story.  It cannot be him.   If the story was about him getting old, then he wouldn't be getting the jump on everyone right and left as if he was every bit as spry as he ever was.   I just am getting something entirely different from this story.  It seems to be more about loyalty and honor and never underestimating your opponents or being weak  and stupid enough to allow another to decide when the correct time to make your challenge.  Kreig's father's dialog is far too human, in my opinion.  I was going to recommend you take that scene out even...   
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!