Klingon Imperial Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
12 12, 2017, 06:35: AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Realtime chats are now following a freeform schedule.  If you would like to chat with you fellows please see the It's Talk Time thread for more info or to schedule a chat.
11894 Posts in 1664 Topics by 689 Members
Latest Member: regdun234
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  Klingon Imperial Forums
|-+  Klingon Arts and Media
| |-+  Klingon Arts and Music
| | |-+  Klingon Art and Artwork
| | | |-+  Klingon Calligraphy?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Klingon Calligraphy?  (Read 22172 times)
Kesvirit
Her Nibbs
Administrator
Thought Master
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1122


That which does not kill me, must have missed me.


WWW
« on: 04 02, 2005, 07:21: AM »

Who amongst you knows anything about the writing of Klingon calligraphy, as opposed to the typing of fonts? I was recently introduced to it and am looking for some sort of background/tutorial on the brushstrokes. The search engines have failed me, so I turn to other Klinfolk and ask them to point me toward any resources of which they may know.

-=- Kesvirit
Logged

Richard the Sound Guy: "And the next person to lecture me about canon risks getting shot out of one! Right, gaffers?"
Gaffers make appreciative and supportive remarks in the form of bad imitations of primate calls from the direction of the lighting grids.
qoSagh
Warrior Bard of the Ontological
Thought Master
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166



WWW
« Reply #1 on: 04 03, 2005, 01:07: AM »

I've done hand lettering of signs and props, but it has all been the equivilent of "Block Letters" nothing I would consider to be Caligraphy. Mostly this is because I learned this before there were reliable fonts to use, so at the time all Klingon characters were done by hand. I to would be interested in anything more artistic, as this might fit with a new project of mine.
Logged

qoSagh qlIStIy
meycha of the qaptaQ www.qaptaQ.org
Prothonotary of the Desert Rite
"I would kill the children of a thousand planets, just to see you smile."
Qunchuy
Lettered Veteran
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 268



« Reply #2 on: 04 11, 2005, 10:16: PM »

You might find http://klingonska.org/piqadpic.html useful. The last couple of examples are probably what you're looking for; http://klingonska.org/pic/piqad-2a.gif is a larger version.
Logged
Kesvirit
Her Nibbs
Administrator
Thought Master
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1122


That which does not kill me, must have missed me.


WWW
« Reply #3 on: 04 12, 2005, 12:27: AM »

Ah! An excellent place to start! Many thanks!

Now all I hve to do is learn a bit of Swedish. }}; )

-=- Kesvirit
Logged

Richard the Sound Guy: "And the next person to lecture me about canon risks getting shot out of one! Right, gaffers?"
Gaffers make appreciative and supportive remarks in the form of bad imitations of primate calls from the direction of the lighting grids.
qoSagh
Warrior Bard of the Ontological
Thought Master
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1166



WWW
« Reply #4 on: 04 17, 2005, 05:38: PM »

That site has actually given me a bit of a push to start working on a long forgoten art project. Seing the stylized Klingon writing has given me ideas for a series of banners that I have wanted to do for a while.
Logged

qoSagh qlIStIy
meycha of the qaptaQ www.qaptaQ.org
Prothonotary of the Desert Rite
"I would kill the children of a thousand planets, just to see you smile."
Abbot Nej vIt
Highly Opinionated Klingon
Thought Master
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 761


"I Will Take the Conquerer Ceasers Salad... Now!"


« Reply #5 on: 04 23, 2005, 12:29: PM »

I Have to say that this represents one of the More Extensive Examples Various Forms I have Seen Yet... I Still Would Enjoy Seeing This addressed Specifically From the Perspective of Caligraphic Style, (Is That A Word?...<Grin>...)...
Logged

Archbishop Nej vIt SutaI-H'Nter,
Spiritual Advisor to K.L.A.W. 4th Fleet,
Abbot, Dugh toy'wI' Library
richard
Scribe
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 17



« Reply #6 on: 05 19, 2005, 04:32: PM »

As per request, heres how i write:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/ores...eso/klingon.jpg

the idea was to write em with a normal pen without lifting the pen off.
this is just normal hand writing obviously, ill upload some pics of other styles at some point.
« Last Edit: 05 19, 2005, 04:34: PM by richard » Logged
Abbot Nej vIt
Highly Opinionated Klingon
Thought Master
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 761


"I Will Take the Conquerer Ceasers Salad... Now!"


« Reply #7 on: 05 22, 2005, 01:31: PM »

Richard,

Nicely Done... I Would love to See what you Would do with an actual Caligraphy Brush...
Logged

Archbishop Nej vIt SutaI-H'Nter,
Spiritual Advisor to K.L.A.W. 4th Fleet,
Abbot, Dugh toy'wI' Library
qarSuv
Courier
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 41


« Reply #8 on: 08 08, 2007, 06:35: PM »

I use between one stroke for b and three for n, trying to keep as close as possible to the original. I took a semester of Chinese once Wink I started, of all things, with an old eyeliner pencil on my desk, which I could erase over and over again until I got it closer to right. The texture of the pencil was very pleasant and "forced" me to maintain a balanced touch, instead of pressing too much, as I would have done with a pen(cil) on paper. Now, I have a good glider pen and I'm going with that and paper. It's like first grade all over again!

I haven't tried writing with a brush yet, should be interesting!
Logged

Dream, grow and LIVE!
Kehlan
Senior Strategist
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 521



WWW
« Reply #9 on: 08 09, 2007, 06:54: AM »

Just out of interest, how do people think a real klingon would write using this system - I mean, normal handwriting as opposed to calligraphy.  When we write in English we tend to join up our letters - its quicker and easier.  do you think klingons would do something similar and if so, what would it look like?  Or do you think they would take the time to print the letters individually?

Kehlan
Logged

Captain Kehlan
USS Endeavour NCC-71805
Federation/Klingon Rapid Response Fleet
ter'eS
Discoursing Diplomat
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 352



WWW
« Reply #10 on: 08 09, 2007, 08:42: PM »

Just out of interest, how do people think a real klingon would write using this system - I mean, normal handwriting as opposed to calligraphy.  When we write in English we tend to join up our letters - its quicker and easier.  do you think klingons would do something similar and if so, what would it look like?  Or do you think they would take the time to print the letters individually?

OTOH, there are plenty of human writing systems that don't join handwritten letters together.  Greek and Hebrew both spring to mind.  I actually do not write in cursive in English, either, but use block letters for all handwritten purposes.  So for me, cursive English is not quicker and easier.

I can't really see how you could make cursive versions of most pIqaD characters without either changing them so much they'd be unrecognizable, or having so many exceptions as to make the idea of cursive pointless.
Logged
Klythe
ngem Sargh lIghwI' pagh cha'
Administrator
Thought Master
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1071


When a show of teeth doesn't work, bite deeply.


WWW
« Reply #11 on: 08 09, 2007, 09:00: PM »

     In English, we actually have several writing styles, printing and cursive most ever child is taught in school.  Printing is almost always taught first, because it is easier for growing hands to draw a few lines and rest between letters.  Cursive is faster for the writer, but often slower for the reader as the rounded shapes are much more similar than their printed equivalents.  This is why formal documents are all drafted in printing styles, even though there are cursive fonts available.  Various forms of Shortpaw...  I mean Shorthand are even faster for the writer, but often unintelligible for other readers.   Calligraphy is sort of the opposite, it tends to be a bit more ornate, taking a bit more time than printing, but being far larger and beautiful.  It's as much a work of art as it is readable, sometimes so much a work of art that it starts to loose some ease in readability.

    Each of those four writing systems of English survives because it serves a purpose.   Outside of typing on a computer, I hardly ever write more than lists or short notes, which I always print. Though for a while I experimented with making my capital As without lifting my writing instrument.   I tend to only use cursive to sign my name.

     As for how Klingons would write, it again depends on what they are writing and why.   Klingons also have computers, but also advanced voice recognition and real-time video communication over long distances, so the actual need for a Klingon to actually form letters with a writing instrument would likely be very limited.     Artistic text would still be an important use, as would clear inscriptions on walls and such.

   What other actual writing would Klingons perform?
Logged
ter'eS
Discoursing Diplomat
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 352



WWW
« Reply #12 on: 08 10, 2007, 05:21: PM »


   What other actual writing would Klingons perform?

And that actually becomes the question "What role will writing play in any future society?"  And I don't know the answer to that.  I've read sf stories in which audio devices have replaced all text sources, and nobody is literate anymore.  I personally think there will always be a place for print in the future, just because nothing beats text for the quick and easy conveyance of passive information (eg., signage), and I expect people will still write, if just to stick a note on the refrigerator door.  But I could be betraying my biases, and the real future might be nothing like that at all.

As for Klingons, I expect any advanced technological society to use text in about the same way.  I don't think there's anything intrinsic about Klingons that would make their use of text much different than any other society on the same technological level, at least for more basic forms of text.
Logged
Kehlan
Senior Strategist
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 521



WWW
« Reply #13 on: 08 10, 2007, 05:32: PM »

Whatever technology 24th centrury Klingons use, their ancestors must have used some form of written system, if not on paper , then on something similar.  And some of these documents may still exist - old formal documents would probably be printed but may have included signatures - and in our culture at least, signatures tend not to be printed.  Old letters may also exist, and these would prbably be in cursive if a Klingon form of cursive exists. 
And how many people scribble a note on a napkin in a restaurant or on the back of their hand.  I can think of lots of reasons why even a technologically advanced society might want to write something down the old fashioned way.

To be honest, I am just curious, I'd like to see what it would look like. 

Kehlan
Logged

Captain Kehlan
USS Endeavour NCC-71805
Federation/Klingon Rapid Response Fleet
Abbot Nej vIt
Highly Opinionated Klingon
Thought Master
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 761


"I Will Take the Conquerer Ceasers Salad... Now!"


« Reply #14 on: 08 18, 2007, 10:07: AM »

From a very biased perspective I would suggest that there would be a great deal of attention to writing traditional forms placed on certain castes within the Klingon culture. The priesthood is of course my first thought there.

My reasoning being, that hand writing notes while doing research forces the individual to slow down and absorb what they are reading. Thus a young initiate might be required to hand copy various ancient documents and scrolls in order to force them to really think about what they are studying. This could be particularly useful for those texts which may have been written so long ago that the phrasing might be unfamiliar due to cultural drift, thus forcing the studant to "Think" in the context of the time in which the source material was originally written.

As far as some sort of "Script/Cursive" writing, I would be inclined to think that a short-hand of some sort where a few characters would be strung together to represent a common word or sentence might be as likely. Possibly more so in light of the precedents of  "Battle Language" (FASA) or "Clipped" Klingon (Canon) though those are presumeably primarily of use in spoken forms.

Just a couple of thoughts off the top of my head, but possibly valid in a conjectural sort of way.

maj! {Good}...
Logged

Archbishop Nej vIt SutaI-H'Nter,
Spiritual Advisor to K.L.A.W. 4th Fleet,
Abbot, Dugh toy'wI' Library
Kesvirit
Her Nibbs
Administrator
Thought Master
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1122


That which does not kill me, must have missed me.


WWW
« Reply #15 on: 08 18, 2007, 01:12: PM »

Quote
quoth Abbot Nej vIt:  From a very biased perspective I would suggest that there would be a great deal of attention to writing traditional forms placed on certain castes within the Klingon culture. The priesthood is of course my first thought there.

Indeed.  Such details of attention and ritual (and then some) are observed in the production of a Sefer Torah, a sacred document read from in Synagogue.

Quote
My reasoning being, that hand writing notes while doing research forces the individual to slow down and absorb what they are reading.

 Thus a young initiate might be required to hand copy various ancient documents and scrolls in order to force them to really think about what they are studying.

Parallels, quoted from the site linked to above:

"While at work, the Sofer [a highly trained specialty scribe leared in Biblical laws] is a vehicle for Hashem's holy words and thus intense concentration and cognizance of the sanctity of the work are critically important. It takes a professional Sofer almost a year to write on parchment more than a quarter of a million letters. The Sofer is not allowed to write from memory."

I find the prohibition against not writing from memory to be especially telling: aside from the difficulty of memorizing all 248 pages, when one works from rote or out of habit, both detail to attention and intent of action are lost. It just becomes another habit, and the mind begins to wander to more interesting and novel things.  So not only would our hypothetical initiates be making mistakes that would invalidate the document, but they would also be failing to learn the material they should be so diligently copying.

(And, FWIW, if the study materials I had as a kid were so carefully and thoughtfully made instead of being mechanically cranked out by the lowest bidder, I probably would have paid more attention to them. }}:-\)
Logged

Richard the Sound Guy: "And the next person to lecture me about canon risks getting shot out of one! Right, gaffers?"
Gaffers make appreciative and supportive remarks in the form of bad imitations of primate calls from the direction of the lighting grids.
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!