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Author Topic: Please translate: witness  (Read 4775 times)
Kesvirit
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« on: 03 07, 2005, 01:03: AM »

posted by tmk1000 on 2-4-2003 at 11:20 PM

Could you Please translate :witnesses Wink
« Last Edit: 04 02, 2005, 01:54: PM by Kesvirit » Logged

Richard the Sound Guy: "And the next person to lecture me about canon risks getting shot out of one! Right, gaffers?"
Gaffers make appreciative and supportive remarks in the form of bad imitations of primate calls from the direction of the lighting grids.
qelIy
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« Reply #1 on: 03 07, 2005, 01:05: AM »

posted on 2-13-2003 at 07:23 PM

excuse me for butting in. i started learning Klingon a month ago. but i would suggest:

leghwIpu'vam
(those who see this)
« Last Edit: 04 02, 2005, 01:55: PM by Kesvirit » Logged
Kesvirit
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« Reply #2 on: 03 07, 2005, 01:10: AM »

posted by tmk1000 on 3-12-2003 at 10:35 PM

ok that works thank you. Wink
« Last Edit: 04 02, 2005, 01:55: PM by Kesvirit » Logged

Richard the Sound Guy: "And the next person to lecture me about canon risks getting shot out of one! Right, gaffers?"
Gaffers make appreciative and supportive remarks in the form of bad imitations of primate calls from the direction of the lighting grids.
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« Reply #3 on: 03 07, 2005, 01:13: AM »

posted on 3-17-2003 at 11:05 PM

Translations

leghwI'pu'vam
"These ones who see"
"These witnesses"

Klingon does not have the emphasis on nouns that English does. "Ones who see this" must be modified further. "Ones who see this what?" Event? Thing? Chicken?
Then you have the recasting issues that that brings. If I were you, I would stick with {leghwI'pu'} "Ones who see".
« Last Edit: 04 02, 2005, 01:55: PM by Kesvirit » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: 03 07, 2005, 01:14: AM »

posted on 6-6-2003 at 07:04 AM

just out of curiosity, couldn't <leghwI'pu'> also be translated in an oracular sense? as in a group of oracles, or "seers", or is that just the terran influence showing through?
« Last Edit: 04 02, 2005, 01:56: PM by Kesvirit » Logged
ngabwI
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« Reply #5 on: 03 07, 2005, 01:17: AM »

posted on 6-6-2003 at 01:08 PM

Not an expert, but I don't think it can...

Quote
Originally posted by qaS
just out of curiosity, couldn't <leghwI'pu'> also be translated in an oracular sense? as in a group of oracles, or "seers", or is that just the terran influence showing through?
I think that's your ENGLISH showing through. In German, it's "Medium" (MAY-dee-oom), in Japanese, it's "mirai-no wakaru no" (literally, "One who understands the future"). I don't think Klingons have a big belief in psychic phenom, based on Worf's comment about Klingons killing their gods.

So the canonistas will probably tell you "No, you cannot use {leghwI'} this way"

Credit goes to Kesvirit for the word "canonistas". (To Kesvirit: That's two "i"'s, one "e", a "v", and no "q"'s. I think I got it right this time.) }}: )

But, to be fair, I have a "Klingon Magic 8 Ball" on my site that I have labeled as {tlhIngan pIq leghwI'}, "Klingon Future-Seer". So I, too have made this "error".
« Last Edit: 04 02, 2005, 01:56: PM by Kesvirit » Logged

jatlh Huch, 'ach bom yuch!
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qurgh
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« Reply #6 on: 03 07, 2005, 01:21: AM »

posted on 6-6-2003 at 02:02 PM

leghwI' just means "one who sees" or "thing that sees". Really you could use it for many things. A camera could have leghwI' in its name.

I think that a seer, or someone who sees into the future, could easily use leghwI'. I don't have pIq in my dictionary, in fact I have no word for fucture. where did you find it?

I might do something like "wa'leS leghwI'" - Tomorrow Seeer. You could also go with other translations:

yajwI' - understander, one who understands... but then I don't have a word for future.

As for Klingons and psychic phenomia, they believe in the veqlargh and the black fleet and sto-vo-kor, so I'm guessing that a Seer or Medium would not be that unheard of. Even the fact that they killed their gods shows that they at least believe that there were some gods and therefor some kind of spiritual existance.
« Last Edit: 04 02, 2005, 01:57: PM by Kesvirit » Logged
ngabwI
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« Reply #7 on: 03 07, 2005, 01:31: AM »

posted on 6-7-2003 at 12:13 PM

Quote
Originally posted by qurgh
leghwI' just means "one who sees" or "thing that sees".
True. But it seems to me that {legh} means to percieve with the EYES, qar'a'?

Quote
I don't have pIq in my dictionary, in fact I have no word for fucture.
Neither do I. I co-opted "time period from now", and used it the same way some use {ben}, to indicate that something was in the past.
Quote
where did you find it?
I don't remember. pojwI' recognizes it, though.

Quote
Even the fact that they killed their gods shows that they at least believe that there were some gods and therefor some kind of spiritual existance.
Yes, but the belief in another plane (divine or otherwise) does not necessarily include the idea of terrestrial creatures being able to communicate with it, much less the idea of certain members of the community having greater abilitites in this area.

But that's another thread. Cheesy
« Last Edit: 04 02, 2005, 01:57: PM by Kesvirit » Logged

jatlh Huch, 'ach bom yuch!
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qurgh
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« Reply #8 on: 03 07, 2005, 01:37: AM »

posted on 6-7-2003 at 03:56 PM

Quote
Originally posted by ngabwI
True. But it seems to me that {legh} means to percieve with the EYES, qar'a'?
Possibly, I don't have any canon sources to suggest that it is only eyes. Maybe using nejwI' would be better.

Quote
Neither do I. I co-opted "time period from now", and used it the same way some use {ben}, to indicate that something was in the past.

I don't remember. pojwI' recognizes it, though.
Could you give me the entry pojwI' has, I can't run it under linux?

Quote
Yes, but the belief in another plane (divine or otherwise) does not necessarily include the idea of terrestrial creatures being able to communicate with it, much less the idea of certain members of the community having greater abilitites in this area.
In order to kill them, they might have needed to at least communicate with them at some point. But as you said:
Quote
But that's another thread. Cheesy
Smiley
« Last Edit: 04 02, 2005, 01:58: PM by Kesvirit » Logged
ngabwI
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« Reply #9 on: 03 07, 2005, 01:40: AM »

posted on 6-9-2003 at 02:00 PM

::Embarrassed::

Quote
Originally posted by qurgh
Could you give me the entry pojwI' has, I can't run it under linux?
Certainly.
pIq - time period from now.
Exp:
{wej jar pIq, ghaHvaD tlhonDu'Daj vIngeH}
In three months, I will send him his nostrils.

Quote
In order to kill them, they might have needed to at least communicate with them at some point.
{bIlugh. vIqelbe'}
You're right. I hadn't thought about that.
« Last Edit: 04 02, 2005, 01:59: PM by Kesvirit » Logged

jatlh Huch, 'ach bom yuch!
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Kesvirit
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« Reply #10 on: 03 07, 2005, 01:46: AM »

posted on 6-9-2003 at 02:53 PM

About {leghwI'} as "seer" in the oracular sense...
asked qaS
Quote
just out of curiosity, couldn't <leghwI'pu'> also be translated in an oracular sense? as in a group of oracles, or "seers", or is that just the terran influence showing through?
replied ngabwI'
Quote
I think that's your ENGLISH showing through. In German, it's "Medium" (MAY-dee-oom), in Japanese, it's "mirai-no wakaru no" (literally, "One who understands the future").
added qurgh
Quote
leghwI' just means "one who sees" or "thing that sees". Really you could use it for many things. A camera could have leghwI' in its name. I think that a seer, or someone who sees into the future, could easily use leghwI'.
Because {leghwI'} could indeed refer to a camera or some other mechanical/electronic sensor or tricorder devise, instead of merely using the word "seer", one would need to be more specific as to what is beeing seen.

To define or specify the oracular component, one would need to further specify the concept to be tranlated from "seer" to "one who sees the future". If you (qurgh) do not wish to use unordained words, perhaps something like "One who sees many tomorrows" or "One who sees the possibilities of many tomorrows" would suffice.

Or, for those of you who wish to stress the spiritual or supernatural component, the metaphors "One who sees the unseeable" or "One who sees that which cannot be seen" may better get your point across. In fact I think a mataphor would be preferable to a literal translation in this case as it stresses the more abstract religious aspect of the concept over the mundane.

I will leave the actual translation to the specialists...

Quote
quoth ngabwI' (To Kesvirit: That's two "i"'s, one "e", a "v", and no "q"'s. I think I got it right this time.) }}: )
You did indeed. qatlho'! (I thank you!)

- Kesvirit
« Last Edit: 04 02, 2005, 01:59: PM by Kesvirit » Logged

Richard the Sound Guy: "And the next person to lecture me about canon risks getting shot out of one! Right, gaffers?"
Gaffers make appreciative and supportive remarks in the form of bad imitations of primate calls from the direction of the lighting grids.
qurgh
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« Reply #11 on: 03 07, 2005, 01:48: AM »

posted on 6-9-2003 at 03:19 PM

Since ngabwI' has the word pIq, we can so something like:

pIqDaq leghwI' - one who sees into the period of time from now...

Dochmeyvelth leghlaHbe'lu' 'ach legh. leghwI' ghaH!
Those things cannot be seen, but he can see them. He is a seer!

That last one has a nice bit of explaining text to go with it. I like it Smiley
« Last Edit: 04 02, 2005, 02:00: PM by Kesvirit » Logged
El Payaso Malo
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« Reply #12 on: 09 16, 2010, 04:16: AM »

I think that's your ENGLISH showing through. In German, it's "Medium" (MAY-dee-oom), in Japanese, it's "mirai-no wakaru no" (literally, "One who understands the future"). I don't think Klingons have a big belief in psychic phenom, based on Worf's comment about Klingons killing their gods.

posted on 6-6-2003 at 02:02 PM

leghwI' just means "one who sees" or "thing that sees". Really you could use it for many things. A camera could have leghwI' in its name.

I think that a seer, or someone who sees into the future, could easily use leghwI'. I don't have pIq in my dictionary, in fact I have no word for fucture. where did you find it?

I might do something like "wa'leS leghwI'" - Tomorrow Seeer. You could also go with other translations:

yajwI' - understander, one who understands... but then I don't have a word for future.

As for Klingons and psychic phenomia, they believe in the veqlargh and the black fleet and sto-vo-kor, so I'm guessing that a Seer or Medium would not be that unheard of. Even the fact that they killed their gods shows that they at least believe that there were some gods and therefor some kind of spiritual existance.

But the word leSSov would confirm that they do have such a concept, yes?  Wink
Might I suggest leSSov ghajbogh ghot for "seer" or "medium?"
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-'IwwIjDaq 'oH veS.
-ngoQ ghajnISbe' vIq. vIq ngoQ 'oH vIq. qatlh ngej rop'a' bIghelbe' 'ej qatlh meQ yotlh bIghelbe'. jISuvDI' meqwIj vIQIj 'e' DaghelQo'.
-qul ngaDHa' 'oH QeHwIj 'ej vaHbo' pubbogh 'Iw 'oH QeHwIj. choHIvmo' qaSuvbe'. bIyIntaHmo' qaSuv.
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