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Author Topic: Klingon races and history  (Read 20850 times)
tilk
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« on: 01 16, 2005, 06:45: AM »

Hi, I am very new at the KLINGON! way of life, but I had been thinking lately. It true. Shocked
Now this has probably been discussed before, but I was thinking about the evolution of the Klingon, from TOS to current day(i.e. the different heads shapes). Anyhoo, I was thinking that what if Klingons were made up of several races of klingons, each with different forehead crowns, "human like to fully developed crown". And say in the TOS days the "no crown" group of houses had political power etc.. you get the drift.
And that the KLingon empire is indeed greater than even the Fed grasps, many houses, in many sectors of klingon space.
I thought it was a good theory, and that these three or four races of Klingon still exist, but the large crown races has current political power.

I am probably way off, so please do not take offence at my ignorance to the klingon culture.
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« Reply #1 on: 02 27, 2005, 06:01: AM »

If you'd been watching Enterprise lately it explains the discrepency. Some viral infection.
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Kehlan
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« Reply #2 on: 04 26, 2006, 08:19: PM »

Ok, I am probably setting the targ among the pigeons here but that explanation does not wash.  Any virus that could melt your forehead like that is not something that even an augmentewd Klingon could survive.  I mea, aren't the ridges actually on the klingon skull?  So this virus would have to actually melt and reshape the bone.

Personally I will stick to the cornish pasty theory.  there was a Klingon invasion of Cornwall and they all bought (or raided) cornish pasties.  Unfortunately when they beamed back to their ships there was a transporter accident and they beamed back with them stuck to their heads, where they have been ever since.  (Joking)

Seriously, I preferred the explanation that the empire is very big and consists of more than one race.  I know that does not explain why Kor, Kang and Koloth developed ridges, but after all, the programs were made by the Federation, not by Klingons and what would the Feddies know about our biology? 

I tend to think Worf had the right idea when he said that "We do not talk about it"  It created an air of mystery and allowed fans to speculate.

Kehlan
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« Reply #3 on: 04 27, 2006, 02:21: AM »

    Well, that doesn't bode well for the pigeons.  Cheesy Klingon Grin

    When Kor and friends switched to having ridges when they had none before, it was all over.  There is no way to explain it.  They should have just stuck with Roddenberry's original answer "They always had ridges we just didn't have the budget to show them".   Klingons don't share well, so I'm fine with there only being one Klingon race.  

     Assuming two sentient life forms arose at about the same time on the Klingon Homeworld, most likely such a marked difference in appearence would have marked them from us and us from them and it wouldn't take long before a war broke out that didn't end until the other 'race' was killed off.

    Then again in my own little silly Furry Trek universe there are 6-8 Klingon races...  So much for my theory.  but I did explain why they didn't kill each other.  The different species were the tribes that Kahless united.  So I suppose the same argument could be made for smooth vs. bumpy.
[edit- Corrected spelling -Klythe]
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qoSagh
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« Reply #4 on: 04 27, 2006, 02:47: AM »

The Kan, Kor & Koloth ridges mystery just about shot down all of the fan theories in one fell swoop. The only two that still worked were the make up budget or the really dismal viewscreen malfunction theories. But more important than appearances is the fact that the two groups behave and react completely differently from each other.

Since I have always held onto the fusion theory, I saw the Enterprise episode as a form of vindication. However I think that the loss of the ridges was the cure not the virus. Either way, we have seen genetic manipulation in the Trek universe many times. We have even seen Transporter accidents split a man into two half selves, so I have to believe that the loss of the ridges is at least possible if not entirely plausible.

As for the Skull, I know that within fandom it has been widely assumed that Klingon skulls do have ridges, I even have one in ceramic. But I don't know if Paraborg has ever actually bothered to show a Klingon skull before. I guess they could be cartilage. I hadn't really given it much thought. We do know that they can be added surgically, not that adding fakes resolves the issue of what the real ones are.
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« Reply #5 on: 05 03, 2006, 06:18: AM »

Quote
quoth qoSagh:  The Kan, Kor & Koloth ridges mystery just about shot down all of the fan theories in one fell swoop. *** Since I have always held onto the fusion theory,...

It is hardly the role of the fans to fill in the black holes in TIICs continuity. Having said that, one thing that did occur to me to explain the changes in Kang, Kor and Koloth’s physiognomies -- if not their behavior -- is that fusions do not develop their ridges until later in life, perhaps as a mid-life development. Our trio was still relatively young when we saw them in TOS and had not yet hit that age or point of development.
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« Reply #6 on: 05 03, 2006, 12:59: PM »

Using a decidedly non-canon source, the Trek Comics as that actually backs up the mid-life crisis theory. There was a graphic novel called Debt of Honor, which had one of the big three (I think it was Kor, but I am not sure) and he appeared as a fusion. This was clearly in the era of the Red Jackets (ST2-ST6) And I believe it took place somewhere between ST2 & ST3. Other than the modern armor and the green battle cloak, he was definitely ridgeless.

After ST7, there was a comic that definitely featured Kor, with Ridges....visiting the gravesite of Kirk, to make sure he was really dead. This was obviously printed after Blood Oath. But it shows one source conforming to canon, along somewhat of a timeline. I seem to remember that Spock met Kor in this comic and did not seem surprised that he now had ridges.

Hey, maybe this means that General Kahless was a young man....and Emperor Kahless was an old man...oh wait, that was several hundred years before the fusions. I guess Paraborg are just a bunch of revisionist oafs.
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« Reply #7 on: 05 03, 2006, 05:27: PM »

Hey, maybe this means that General Kahless was a young man....and Emperor Kahless was an old man...oh wait, that was several hundred years before the fusions. I guess Paraborg are just a bunch of revisionist oafs.

The Kahless that appeared in the original series was not  the real Kahless.  It was an image of him taken from the mind of Kirk and therefore reflects Kirk's beliefs rather than reality.  Kirk of course had no real knowledge of Klingon culture to base his ideas on.

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« Reply #8 on: 05 03, 2006, 10:29: PM »

I have read the Paraborg revised explanation in the FEDERATION encyclopedia. The Kahless remark was meant as humor about the ever changing canon of the script writers. However, since we are calling one Kahless "not real" then the other would also be "not real" as he was cloned from a suspicious blood sample. Non canon sources state it is not the blood of Kahless at all, but more to the point, reality is likely something, that neither Kahless was well acquainted with.
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« Reply #9 on: 05 25, 2006, 01:03: AM »

In the FASA Klingon Book it was surmised that that Klingons merged human and Klingon DNA for a fusion. It is understandable that there would be bahavioral differences as the human fusion had to develop their own culture etc,
The question is were they able to reproduce? Do they survive? Where are they now?
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« Reply #10 on: 05 25, 2006, 05:40: AM »

Quote
quoth qoSagh:  The Kan, Kor & Koloth ridges mystery just about shot down all of the fan theories in one fell swoop. *** Since I have always held onto the fusion theory,...

It is hardly the role of the fans to fill in the black holes in TIICs continuity. Having said that, one thing that did occur to me to explain the changes in Kang, Kor and Koloth’s physiognomies -- if not their behavior -- is that fusions do not develop their ridges until later in life, perhaps as a mid-life development. Our trio was still relatively young when we saw them in TOS and had not yet hit that age or point of development.


That's the best explanation yet...
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« Reply #11 on: 04 17, 2008, 01:42: PM »

See, I'm happy accepting the "Klingons have always had ridges we just couldn't afford the prosthetics and make up" explanation.  That said, I also don't have a problem with the viral theory either.
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Kehlan
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« Reply #12 on: 04 18, 2008, 11:59: AM »

I'm afraid I have a massive problem with the viral thing... by all accounts the ridges are on the skull.  I'm sorry but if that is the case, you would not surive anything that was strong enough to melt and reshape your skull like that.

If the skull were smooth, like a human's, and the ridges formed by... hmm, cartilage maybe? (You'd have to ask a biologist or doctor for details) then it might just work... if that is, we ignore the way the hair styles stayed nice and tidy after such massive biological disruption....

oh, by the way, the book "forged in fire" covers the entire blood feud with the albino and 'explains' Kor, Kang and Koloth getting their ridges....  I still thik it doesnt work, but within the confines of the virus thing, the books explanation does make sense.

Kehlan
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« Reply #13 on: 04 20, 2008, 12:13: AM »

Despite the fact that there have been many fan produced Klingon skulls, one of which I own, have we ever actually seen one on screen? I can't remember. If we have not then I suppose there is the chance that the ridges are not bone at all. It could also simply be another case of script writer-itis that plagues trek from time to time with things than can not be explained logically.
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« Reply #14 on: 04 23, 2008, 05:13: PM »

Despite the fact that there have been many fan produced Klingon skulls, one of which I own, have we ever actually seen one on screen? I can't remember. If we have not then I suppose there is the chance that the ridges are not bone at all. It could also simply be another case of script writer-itis that plagues trek from time to time with things than can not be explained logically.
There is an actual cross-section of a full Klingon, which does actually contain a bare skull, including the ridges. Since this is an official Paramount publication, it does make it semi-canon...
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« Reply #15 on: 05 02, 2008, 07:02: PM »

I think its just become canon... Its a wrap are selling one on ebay at the moment... I've saved the pics and will post a pic later. The skull was used on Enterprise.  so... the ridges are definitely part of the skull then....
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« Reply #16 on: 03 03, 2010, 01:16: AM »

Why can't Kan, Kor, and Koloth have been born ridgeless, and then in the interim between the TOS and later have had plastic surgery to give them ridges?  I mean if all the new Klingon kids are born with ridges maybe the ridgeless ones would decide to have ridges added since the virus/cure has run its course.  I say this having never seen Enterprise so I'm not sure why the Klingons back then didn't do this as well.  However, Kurn had plastic surgery on his ridges albeit against his will, and it seems to be a common enough thing that a random Klingon doctor could tell that he had had it after a short examination.

All in all though I prefer that they always had them.
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« Reply #17 on: 03 26, 2010, 08:31: PM »

They absolutely could have had plastic surgery. However I find that not likely, as it would be a kind of lie and we have heard time and time again from the Imperials that Klingons do not lie. Thus a fusion choosing a false imperial look would not be well received in imperial society.
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