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Author Topic: Rokeg Blood Pie and Haggis  (Read 26495 times)
voraq
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« on: 12 18, 2003, 05:36: PM »

I have seen some of the recipes for Rokeg Blood pie and I am disappointed. All the recipes I have seen are basically some form of cherry pie.

Has anyone had English Blood Pudding? I haven't but I think that there might be a way to modify a recipe and make Blood Pudding into Rokeg Blood Pie.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this idea.
« Last Edit: 04 25, 2008, 03:13: AM by Kesvirit » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: 12 19, 2003, 04:47: PM »

Quote
Has anyone had English Blood Pudding? I haven't but I think that there might be a way to modify a recipe and make Blood Pudding into Rokeg Blood Pie.

OK, if you want to give it a try, there is a recipe on page 125 of the "Star Trek Cookbook"
(ISBN 0-671-00022-5)
If no one carries it locally to you, you can order it here.

(I don't want to cause copyright issues for the Ambassador, so I won't post it here.)

I found a recipe for Blood Pudding online. This recipe contains lungs, which have been declared as inedible by the USDA. I imagine you could probably sub it out for another organ meat, but I don't know what it would be.

As for the "pie" part: In Klingon for the Galactic Traveler, there is a limited explanation of Klingon Food. In that section, it is mentioned that animal fat ({tlhagh}) is used in some recipes, but only for deep-frying ({mIQ}). Also, "grain" ({tIr}) is mentioned, but only in the context of combining it with herbed, granulated cartilage ({ngat}), which is then put on meat and {mIQ}'ed.

So we have the rudiments of flour ({tIr}), and the use of animal fat documented in canon. There is also another verb ({'Im}), meaning "to render, boil fat". I know from my soapmaking that to render fat, one must use water. (Every culture that discovered soap did so with animal fat, and they all use water in their rendering processes.)

All this rambling is leading up to the fact that the ingredients necessary for making the crust  as we know it (flour, water, fat) are present, at least in a rudimentary state, in Klingon cuisine. With the rendering process, we see that water and fat have at least crossed paths, and fat and grain are combined in the deep-frying process. So, to my mind, it is possible that a creative Klingon gourmand, at some point or another, has attempted to put the three together, to make something vaguely resembling a pie crust.

So the good news is, you might be able to throw all the ind\gredients into a regular pie crust, and have it be somewhat authentic.

Now the bad news:

One of the major reasons a pie crust holds together is because of gluten, the binding protein in flour. Gluten is found only in plants of the subfamily Pooideae (which includes wheat, oats and corn), so there is no reason to suspect that an alien plant would contain an analogous protein. Any pie crust made with a plant not high in gluten would fall apart.

WARNING! TOTAL SPECULATION AHEAD!

Good news:
Klingons could use animal skin as a crust.
There is a Klingon dish call {Duran lung DIr} "Durani Lizard Skins", meant to be eaten while still on fire. So we know Klingons are not averse to eating only the skin of an animal.
Animal skin could conceivably be placed into a pie pan, then baked at a low temperature for an extended period of time, to produce a brittle "rawhide". Such a "crust" would be chewy ({ngal}), which is seen as a positive trait in Klingon cuisine.

Bad news:
{Duran lung DIr} is/are not native to {Qo'noS}. According to KGT, it was brought there by troops returning home from tours on Duran, where they were introduced to it by the natives

And finally, the biggest monkeywrench of all:
Rokeg Blood Pie has had at least three separate appearances onscreen and in other canon. Images are available at K'Tesh's Klingon Recipe Pages. The only other one that I can see that would be vaguely doable from Terran ingredients would be the one that looks like a gelatinous flan. We know Klingons have something like gelatin ({ngat}), so it could be that animal blood is combined with {ngat}, then allowed to set. (Although I do not know, from a practical standpoint, how the blood would affect the gelatin's set. Citrus keeps gelatin from setting, but I am ignorant as to what causes this.)

Man, this has turned into a long post! I hope I haven't thrown too much at you, and I hope that, at least, you now have a few ideas to go on.

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« Reply #2 on: 12 22, 2003, 12:55: PM »

Not that it helps, I suppose, but I just made it into a deep dish stuffed pizza...........with sausage and chunks of tomato, and barbecue sauce, and deli thin sliced beef, and garlic butter, etc...........

I called it a Rokeg Blood Pizza.

Again, not that it helps, I suppose, but it sure tasted good.


Kapact
« Last Edit: 12 26, 2003, 12:56: AM by Kesvirit » Logged

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voraq
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« Reply #3 on: 12 25, 2003, 09:53: PM »

Kapact:

I never thought of that, it's a good idea.

ngabwI:

That makes sense.  I imagine the skin/crust is similar to the Irish Terran dish Hagis.   Personally I would try it with a Terran crust first.
 
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« Reply #4 on: 12 26, 2003, 04:17: AM »

The Joys of Haggis; Further Suggestions for Authentic Rokeg Pie Crust

Quote
quoth Kapact  Not that it helps, I suppose, but I just made it into a deep dish stuffed pizza...........with sausage and chunks of tomato, and barbecue sauce, and deli thin sliced beef, and garlic butter, etc....

I called it a Rokeg Blood Pizza.
<Homer Simpson> ::head and eyes rolled back, drooling::  Rokeg Blood Pizza... aaaagghhl... </Homer>

It is a rare dish indeed that cannot be improved with massive amounts of garlic. Some claim that "Garlic is nothing but the ketchup of intellectuals." These ignorant fools are so impaired that they are to pitied instead of challenged....

Quote
quoth voraq I imagine the skin/crust is similar to the Irish Terran dish Hagis.
When prepared in the traditional fashion, the "crust" of the Haggis is usually so tough and burnt as to be indigestible. It is the contents that are scooped out and eaten.

It is always beneficial to know the history of one's enemies, for it gives insight into the mindset of the current culture. However, I realize that there is a difference between useful insight and entertaining trivia. (Most of the time.)

Therefore I will be brief. The dish known chiefly as Haggis has been traced back to early Greek times and was known at one point or another throughout most of Asia, where protein was scarce. But in recent centuries it has become associated exclusively with Scotland, and is currently thought to have been introduced to the Scots by Roman invaders. For the uninitiated, this page presents a brief and amusing introduction to the haggis. The relationship between Scotland and haggis was carved in stone Robert Burns' Address to a Haggis.

Chasing down and butchering one's prey causes one to work up quite an appetite. Hunters and travelers, especially those on foot, must travel lightly. In non-industrial societies metal cookware heavy enough to withstand several hours over a cooking fire is impractical to carry. The stomach of medium-sized game makes an excellent cooking container.

Following a successful hunt, the kill must be butchered and prepared for transport in the most efficient way possible. None of the kill should be wasted. The organ meats are the most delicate and perishable part of the animal. They are in effect botulism time bombs and may well go bad before the rest of the kill reaches its destination. Therefore it makes sense to eat them first. Add some spices and toasted grains to absorb the worst of the grease and boil the resulting concoction long enough to kill off any potential parasites. Not only are the bombs are de-fused, but nothing goes to waste and the tired party is treated to a fresh and nutritious feast.

I am very surprised that I have yet to encounter a Klingon equivalent to this natural and delicious boil-in-a-bag meal. To think that canned vegetarian haggis is available in most any supermarket in the UK is enough to make one despair of the collective Human spirit and reaffirm one's Klingon superiority.


Quote
quoth ngabwI' Animal skin could conceivably be placed into a pie pan, then baked at a low temperature for an extended period of time, to produce a brittle "rawhide". Such a "crust" would be chewy ({ngal}), which is seen as a positive trait in Klingon cuisine...

The only other one that I can see that would be vaguely doable from Terran ingredients would be the one that looks like a gelatinous flan. We know Klingons have something like gelatin ({ngat}), so it could be that animal blood is combined with {ngat}, then allowed to set. (Although I do not know, from a practical standpoint, how the blood would affect the gelatin's set...
This thread (ngabwI's post in particular) has been on my mind while assisting another in planning a Burns Nicht celebration. Sheeps' or other ungulates' intestines are often used for sausage casings and could conceivably be used for crust. Depending on what variety of {ngat}, fat, lard, oil, etc. the baking pan is coated with, one could probably create a thick-and chewy effect. I would think that coating the pan (after all, you don't want to prematurely break your pie by having it stick to the pan... In Klingon cuisine, presentation counts!) would negate the need to include blood as an ingredient in the crust itself. The contrast of the texture of the crust with that of the filling is part of what gives Rokeg Blood Pie its appeal. Experiment with different crust-baking techniques before attempting your culinary masterpiece.

Caveat: The UK's Food Standards Agency is in the process of banning the use of sheeps' intestines for sausage casings (and presumably alll other uses) out of concern for BSE ("mad cow disease"), and is pressuring the European Commission to do the same. Add to this the banning of sheep lungs by the USDA and stomachs, brains and livers in many of its sub-jurisdictions and Earthbound Klinfolk in these areas searching for such delicacies are limited to raising their own table sheep on the sly. Those living in urban areas where raising livestock is impractical or illegal may have to resort to synthetic casings made from collagen.  At that point one might as well forgo the casing route altogether and order it by the sheet.

Perhaps one could get around such restrictions by lining the baking pan with overlapping targhs' ears. These make ideal "rawhide", and are far easier to obtain and process than hides which must be stripped, dried, etc. 

Just be prepared to have to SHOUT your commands to "lengwI' ".**

So much for being brief. My apologies for the ramble.

-=- Kesvirit

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[Edited to fix link]
« Last Edit: 10 14, 2007, 12:14: AM by Kesvirit » Logged

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voraq
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« Reply #5 on: 01 02, 2004, 06:06: PM »

I guess knowing your enemies history is beneficial.

I knew little of what you said of Haggis.

As for the bans of intestines as casings and the consumption of some organ meats that is sad for all Klinfolk.


I'm not up to date with the current regulations in the US but given the current outbreak of Mad Cow in the US I assume that the laws will get as bad as parts of Europe.  

If ever I get a chance to experiment with Blood Pie, I will remember to perfect the crust first.
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« Reply #6 on: 01 05, 2004, 09:08: AM »

Intestine and Lung Substitutions; Pastry Precedents for Pie Crust

Quote
quoth voraq As for the bans of intestines as casings and the consumption of some organ meats that is sad for all Klinfolk.
Quote
quoth ngabwI' I found a recipe for Blood Pudding online. This recipe contains lungs, which have been declared as inedible by the USDA. I imagine you could probably sub it out for another organ meat, but I don't know what it would be.
Zan voraq, for whatever use this may be to you in your search for a satisfactory Blood Pie recipe, The Great Haggis Hunt has yielded the following suggestions as replacement ingredients for the proscribed parts:
 - kidney or tongue for lungs
 - mutton or stewing lamb for offal
 - boneless lamb shoulder or breast, or beef brisket, cut up or ground, as needed for whatever is prohibited or otherwise unavailable.
 - synthetic casings made of collagen are readily available, though they just aren't the same...

Quote
quoth ngabwI' As for the "pie" part: In Klingon for the Galactic Traveler, there is a limited explanation of Klingon Food... *** ...the ingredients necessary for making the crust as we know it (flour, water, fat) are present, at least in a rudimentary state, in Klingon cuisine. With the rendering process, we see that water and fat have at least crossed paths, and fat and grain are combined in the deep-frying process. So, to my mind, it is possible that a creative Klingon gourmand, at some point or another, has attempted to put the three together, to make something vaguely resembling a pie crust.
At one point or another, indeed. Crust should not be difficult to formulate or justify. Pastries were around at least as early as the 2200s O.E.C.; in TFR, Krenn has a fondness for jelly pastry, while Kelly enjoys warm black ale and plain pastry with pale butter ("The Breakfast of Champions"). Though we are never told the ingredients that went into these items or how they were processed, I think this argues for a Klingon analog of Terran sweetbreads.

-=- Kesvirit
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« Reply #7 on: 03 18, 2004, 10:14: PM »

Since we have already hopelessly merged Haggis & Burns night and Blood Pie, I think this calls for a party. lol

I have also considered Blood pudding (also called black pudding) as a pie filling. I have thought of traditional pie crusts, filo dough (like spanakopita or spinach pie) or another option. I'm not sure if the word pie is strictly limited to things backed with crust or not, and if it is if there is a required number of crusts. I know chicken pot pies when store bought often leave out the bottom crust. I have had, at Burns suppers a dish refered to a steak pie, which is largely just bits of steak in a redish brown gravy served in a crock, with a puffy pastry slab placed loosely on the top of the crock.

So I would think that Blood Pie could fit in any of these forms. Although I have not made it yet, my idea of using filo dough, would be to wrap all sides of a mound of blood pudding so as to make the finished product more of a finger food.

As for the gelatinous flan type, I would think a good aproximation of this would be something similar to head cheese, but instead of a plain geletin one could use bullion or a blood infused geletin.

I also seem to remember a quote from Worf's human mother about Klingons guarding thier recipies for this delicacy quite well. So perhaps the different versions are merely the different recipies. Which brings to mind the question what exactly is Rokeg?

Is it a type of animal, making the pie similar to cow blood pie? Is it a region or planet similar to Brittish blood pudding? Is it an adjective such as either tasty blood pie or clotted blood pie?

and finally on the subject of having less than inspired Klingon foods, I have a friend who makes Rokeg Blood Pie out of sausage & peppers with tomato sauce, in a pie tim but with no crust. I guess the theory is that it is red and pie shaped so it must be Rokeg. Using that theory, so is a ring mold of strawberry kiwi jello, enough said.
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« Reply #8 on: 03 19, 2004, 01:26: PM »

Quote
Although I have not made it yet, my idea of using filo dough, would be to wrap all sides of a mound of blood pudding so as to make the finished product more of a finger food.

Kind of like a pastry envelop thing.  No?
 
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« Reply #9 on: 03 19, 2004, 07:29: PM »

Yes, kind of a half breed between a sandwich and a pie.
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« Reply #10 on: 07 26, 2004, 05:14: AM »

Pig and/or chicken blood is an ingredient in some genuine Terran Chinese dishes. Blood may be sold in some chinatown grocery stores. It is usually in its clotted form, and may be cut into cubes. These cubes may be cooked in soup, and their texture is firm but not rubbery. Blood can be mashed in with the other meats.

Pigs tongue is a delicacy, and I'm sure would make a fine ingredient in this savoury pie. Kidney may also be used, but must be well cleaned. Liver has a strong taste, but some may like it. Ground venison would also be appropriate.

Copious amounts of garlic are recommended. White pepper, soy sauce, Hoisin sause, and oyster sauce can be experimented with... maybe a dash of vinegar or lemon juice or pickled jalapenos in the mix.

For the crust, I would advise regular pastry crust or even filo....yum.
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« Reply #11 on: 06 01, 2005, 09:01: PM »

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Pig and/or chicken blood is an ingredient in some genuine Terran Chinese dishes
Apart from the Chinese, both the Dutch and the Brits (English?) have pigblood based dishes/food.

The brits have the black pudding (it could well be looked upon as blood pie),
the Dutch have a sausage made of nothing more than pig's blood, pig's fat and a coagulant, named, apropriately: Blood wurst.

Personally, not being influenced by any kind of experience in the kitchen, would prefer a animal-skin crust for my blood pie...
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« Reply #12 on: 12 21, 2005, 04:03: AM »

Not that it helps, I suppose, but I just made it into a deep dish stuffed pizza...........with sausage and chunks of tomato, and barbecue sauce, and deli thin sliced beef, and garlic butter, etc...........

I called it a Rokeg Blood Pizza.

Again, not that it helps, I suppose, but it sure tasted good.


Kapact


I love this idea for Rokeg Blood Pie, because basicly pizza was called a " Pizza Pie. "

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melmaqngan
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« Reply #13 on: 04 16, 2008, 07:26: AM »

Just stuff a pie crust with blood sausage filling.
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« Reply #14 on: 04 17, 2008, 07:35: PM »

...Sorry honey, I'm going to be having dinner at the Romulan's again...

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« Reply #15 on: 01 23, 2014, 09:22: AM »

I was revisiting this thread as research before posting a new thread. I felt I had to add that in the time since my first post, I have had blood pudding many times, I like it quite a bit. I have yet to make it into a pie however.
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