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Author Topic: The new Star Trek movie (Star Trek XI)  (Read 9305 times)
Qunchuy
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« on: 05 08, 2009, 02:52: AM »

Around the Consulate, there is no controversy surrounding the new movie: everyone with whom I have discussed it expects it to be very, very formulaic and very, very bad, and no one plans to see it. I’ve been unable to find a volunteer to sacrifice their frontal lobes for two hours and report back to the rest of us if it is as bad and inconsequential as we all expect it to be.

Would you be willing to bend to duty and give us a paragraph review as to the quality of the film

It is neither formulaic nor bad. It is surprising, unexpected, and my opinion is that it is quite good. Continuity is not an issue; you can take that as either positive or negative, depending on what you thought of the new Battlestar Galactica. It has real potential to put new life (and new civilizations?) into the Star Trek franchise.
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« Reply #1 on: 05 08, 2009, 08:35: AM »

I went to the film expecting nothing.  I have tried very hard to keep an open mind and not prejudge based on other people's opinions.  By the time it finished all I wanted was for them to rewind so I could watch it again, right now!

The story was original and entertaining.  The lack of continuity/canon is explained and trhere is a good reason, that also leaves it open for them to do followups without being bogged down by the other TOS films.... (I'll explain when more of you have seen it as I don't want to post spoilers)

The acting was good, they all fitted very well into their parts.  the special effects were excellent.  Some people have said they wont go to see it because its an insult to the old cast.  It is not an insult, but a tribute.

All I can say is go and see it and make up your mind for yourself.  You will be pleasantly surprised.  In my opinion, this is the best Trek film ever made and I sincerely hope there are more made very soon. 

If I had to criticise anything, I would say that not enough was made of Bana's role as Nero.  He didn't get to do very much apart from stalk around menacingly and the explanation of his problem was a bit rushed and forced.
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torqey
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« Reply #2 on: 05 08, 2009, 04:06: PM »

    I liked it. Way different than original TOS, but good if you don't compare it with TOS. 4 star special effects, kind of a weak plot and O.K. chars in my opinion, overall I'd give it a 3 star. What'd everyone else think?

    I went in to the film expecting a horrible, awful, film that ruined trek for ever, but I was very pleased with what I got.

[Merged topic from General Discussions]
« Last Edit: 05 08, 2009, 10:22: PM by Klythe » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: 05 08, 2009, 10:07: PM »


Around the Consulate, there is no controversy surrounding the new movie: everyone with whom I have discussed it expects it to be very, very formulaic and very, very bad, and no one plans to see it. I’ve been unable to find a volunteer to sacrifice their frontal lobes for two hours and report back to the rest of us if it is as bad and inconsequential as we all expect it to be.

Would you be willing to bend to duty and give us a paragraph review as to the quality of the film

What led you to denounce so vehemently a film you hadn't even seen yet?

As has been noted, the film is very different from the other Trek films, and I'm sure there are plenty of fanboyz who will hate it because of that, but I've been a Trek fan since the first airing of the first episode of the Original Series, and I loved it.
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Klythe
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« Reply #4 on: 05 08, 2009, 10:38: PM »

    I've also tried to keep from forming opinions of the film before seeing it.  Though the rumours, leaks and trailers have left me rather wary of the final result...  I tell myself that trailers are supposed to make it look like a typical hollywood action flick...  I haven't seen I yet, but I intend to...  Maybe net week after the hype has died down a little.   The movie will not change.  It is what it is.  But the stakes will lower...  Fewer close-minded fans going with intent to hate it, fewer opening day action movie fans, etc.
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torqey
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« Reply #5 on: 05 10, 2009, 12:58: AM »

Everyone I have talked to so far has loved it, trekkers and non-trekkers alike. Of course, it's like 85% action...
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« Reply #6 on: 05 10, 2009, 04:10: AM »

Quote
ter’eS:...   What led you to denounce so vehemently a film you hadn't even seen yet?

Leads. You are speaking in the past tense.

1. 20-odd years of random, reckless retcon
2. Experience. }}>: (
3.
Quote
torqey...    "Of course, it's like 85% action..."
4. “If you slap the franchise label on it, they will come.”
5. No Klingon content

-=- Kesvirit
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« Reply #7 on: 05 10, 2009, 08:35: AM »

The nice thing though, Kesvirit, is that although there were no klingons in it, its set it up in such a way that they are not constrained to follow TOS or the original movies... which means Praxis may never explode... and there may be no encounter with the organians... which means, Klingon wise, absolutely anything could happen....
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« Reply #8 on: 05 10, 2009, 03:19: PM »

So you don't like smartly written dialog, clever nods to the catch-phrases and cliches of previous Trek, young, sexy actors, excellent special effects and exciting action scenes? If not, then for you I feel only pity.

As a movie, Star Trek XI succeeds extremely well, IMHO. As to whether it conforms to someone's idea of an appropriate extension of Trek canon, well, Star Trek has been around a long time. Every new TV show or movie has taken it in new directions, and this movie is no exception. The question is, do you love Star Trek, or do you love your particular interpretation of Star Trek. Anyway, my motives are selfish: if a revitalized franchise brings us more students of tlhIngan Hol, I'll be satisfied.
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torqey
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« Reply #9 on: 05 10, 2009, 04:36: PM »

Yes, that was something I was going to mention that disappointed me very much...maybe in the next one... Sad
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« Reply #10 on: 05 11, 2009, 07:08: PM »

Quote
Kehlan:...   its set it up in such a way that they are not constrained to follow TOS or the original movies... which means Praxis may never explode... and there may be no encounter with the organians... which means, Klingon wise, absolutely anything could happen....

I do not see this as a positive development. If TMIC can completely disregard precedent and continuity by hitting the reset button whenever they feel lke it, what is left? They couldn’t even be bothered to come up with a title.



ter’eS:
“So you don't like smartly written dialog,”
Show me some. I’ve seen the script.

“clever nods to the catch-phrases and cliches of previous Trek,”
Wink-wink nudge-nudge? No, I prefer actual wit.

“young, sexy actors,”
No. I prefer talented performers capable of subtle communication.

“excellent special effects”
Special effects should be integrated into a movie to further draw the viewer into the story. If the aspects of any movie that hold your eye are the special effects, T&A (“young, sexy actors”), or other eye candy, then the producers are doing it wrong from a storytelling aspect. Granted, they appear to have hit a magic LCD formula from a financial aspect ($72.5M over the first weekend).

“and exciting action scenes?”
Ditto. Action movies bore me.

“If not, then for you I feel only pity.” A Klingon who feels pity for another over something as ultimately trivial as differing tastes in movies is a pathetic creature indeed. I pity you for being able not to see what we’ve lost: Star Trek. If you like the explosions and the beautiful people, go see the movie highlighting the explosions and the beautiful people. Do not insult me with your “pity” for preferring films with depth, clever plots, and complex characters. Genre preferences are just that.

I am also surprised that you of all people have not expressed displeasure at all that juicy new Okrandian canon left on the cutting room floor. Though I suspect it will eventually make it online one way or another.
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« Reply #11 on: 05 11, 2009, 09:36: PM »

A Klingon who feels pity for another over something as ultimately trivial as differing tastes in movies is a pathetic creature indeed.

I'm not a Klingon, never claimed to be one. I consider myself more of a linguistic researcher among the klinfolk.
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torqey
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« Reply #12 on: 05 12, 2009, 12:18: AM »

Whatever anyone says about the movie, I still loved it and that is NOT going to change.
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Qunchuy
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« Reply #13 on: 05 12, 2009, 02:21: AM »

ter’eS:
“So you don't like smartly written dialog,”
Show me some. I’ve seen the script.

One of the lines I liked best is in the previews, so I don't consider it a spoiler:

"Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved eight hundred lives, including your mother's, and yours. I dare you to do better."
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QoghtlhIH'u'
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« Reply #14 on: 05 12, 2009, 09:45: AM »

Quote from Kesvirit
Quote
I am also surprised that you of all people have not expressed displeasure at all that juicy new Okrandian canon left on the cutting room floor. Though I suspect it will eventually make it online one way or another.

So this movie did initiate new Klingon texts without using it? What happened?
I thought seeing in the preview that there were Klingon guards in the movie. Are they on the cutting room floor as well?  Sick
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torqey
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« Reply #15 on: 05 12, 2009, 03:49: PM »

A Klingon who feels pity for another over something as ultimately trivial as differing tastes in movies is a pathetic creature indeed. I pity you for being able not to see what we’ve lost: Star Trek. If you like the explosions and the beautiful people, go see the movie highlighting the explosions and the beautiful people. Do not insult me with your “pity” for preferring films with depth, clever plots, and complex characters. Genre preferences are just that.
HEY! Wait a minute! That's not fair at ALL, Kesvirit! I once called a vulcan stupid for thinking that tlhIngan Hol was an illogical language, and you told me I was crossing the line. Now you're calling people pathetic? Isn't THAT crossing the line? What are you doing? Why are you so against the Star Trek movie and why are you now turning against other posters? Oh, and you just said that "A Klingon who feels pity for another over something as ultimately trivial as differing tastes in movies is a pathetic creature indeed." And then RIGHT after that, you're like, "I pity you for blah blah blah." So now you're feeling pity for people too? Does that make you pathetic? And how do action movies bore you?? I never thought I'd here a fan of klingons say that action bores him. You'd rather they sit around on the bridge the whole time playing cards? I'll admit it wasn't at all like other Star Treks, but don't compare it to the other ones. If you just think of it as a whole new generation of ST, then it's good! Don't think, "They've ruined Spock! Kirk sucks! There were no Klingons!" Think, "Boy, I loved the special effects, the action, and though the story was kind of weak, aren't all the time travel ones a bit shaky?" You're dismissing every good thing we point out about the movie without even giving it a chance. Every thing you point out about it is BAD. Focus. On. The. Good. Things.
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« Reply #16 on: 05 13, 2009, 03:47: AM »

Quote
QoghtlhIH'u'....   So this movie did initiate new Klingon texts without using it? What happened?
I thought seeing in the preview that there were Klingon guards in the movie. Are they on the cutting room floor as well?

The only details I have been able to find have been at Sci Fi Wire:
Quote
Eagle-eyed Star Trek fans will note the name Mark Okrand among the film's credits when it debuts on May 8: Okrand is the linguist who created the Klingon language in the movies. (Possible spoilers ahead!)

But you won't hear any actual Klingon in the film, co-writer Alex Kurtzman told SCI FI Wire in Beverly Hills, Calif., on Sunday.

"We actually had a sequence that ended up getting cut from the movie that took place on Rura Penthe, in a Klingon prison," Kurtzman said, explaining the deletion. "And there was definitely Klingon spoken in the movie, and it ended up getting cut."  ***

Rura Penthe, as fans know, is the Klingon prison colony on an ice world, which was first featured in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. Images of Nero in the prison—and the line "The wait is over"—are featured in the trailer but do not appear in the movie.

In J.J. Abrams' Star Trek, the Rura Penthe scene was meant to explain where the villainous Nero (Eric Bana) has spent a couple of decades in the story.

I don’t remember seeing Klingons in the trailers, though as I understand it there are several trailers in circulation. I mentioned in the pre-release thread that “According to us.imdb.com and this thread (click on the “Show Spoiler!” button), there will be Klingons present in the form of two prison guards, though the only image of them I’ve found so far has them concealed in hoods and heavy coats.” But because the figures’ features were hidden beneath the hoods/masks, the viewer can’t tell for sure what species they are, that they were in fact Klingons. 
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Klythe
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« Reply #17 on: 05 13, 2009, 05:17: AM »


    I am very disappointed with what is going on in this thread.   I will now read the riot act and everyone in this thread should stop and consider how this applies to them

Rules and Regulations: The Forums' Etiquette and Posting Guidelines v.2.0. PLEASE READ BEFORE GOING ANY FURTHER.

   * Never insult or attack someone personally just because they do not agree with you. The idea is to attack the argument, not the poster. You can defend your own opinions with facts, research, logical reasoning, and links to relevant material. That is the diplomatic way to handle things and is what is expected of our Forum members.

    It is fine to discuss your own opinions of the film, but it is not acceptable to discuss your opinions of fellow posters because of those opinions.  Advocating others adopt your opinions is fine, but trying to place yourself as superior to those who hold another point of view is a waste of breath.  Better to spend the breath attacking the opinion, not the person or people who hold it.
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ter'eS
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« Reply #18 on: 05 13, 2009, 07:03: PM »

Well, I guess I started it, with my "feel only pity" remark, but in my own (weak) defense, that was supposed to be a joke (as in the quote from the book Debt to Pleasure. I thought it was a fairly common turn of phrase; evidently not.  So, sorry. I will say no more about the Star Trek movie or anyone's opinion of it.
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torqey
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« Reply #19 on: 05 14, 2009, 12:22: AM »

Well, I guess I started it, with my "feel only pity" remark, but in my own (weak) defense, that was supposed to be a joke (as in the quote from the book Debt to Pleasure. I thought it was a fairly common turn of phrase; evidently not.  So, sorry. I will say no more about the Star Trek movie or anyone's opinion of it.
I didn't tink it was your fault at all...and it is a common phrase...
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« Reply #20 on: 05 14, 2009, 02:46: PM »

........ If you like the explosions and the beautiful people, go see the movie highlighting the explosions and the beautiful people. Do not insult me with your “pity” for preferring films with depth, clever plots, and complex characters. Genre preferences are just that.
HEY! Wait a minute! .....  And how do action movies bore you?? I never thought I'd here a fan of klingons say that action bores him. .....

I am not going to take sides but I like to point out that action as such in a movie can be too much, even boring sometimes because it is often predictable.

I haven't seen ST XI yet, but I know I was put off when I went to see the last James Bond movie I saw in the cinema: too much violence, too much action of the predictable kind. For me that was not what the British secret agent was supposed to be like. Also in The Matrix 2  cool there was a lot of pointless gun blazing  Thumbs up! , I was really bored. The Matrix as such I liked because the idea that one's consciousness can be absorbed in virtual reality is great, much like being on a Holodeck and trying out your new batleth.
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Kaz Son of Maktan
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« Reply #21 on: 05 28, 2009, 11:59: AM »

I just saw the new Star Trek film for a second time. Caught more of the in-jokes (poor Beagle), but saw more flaws in the story and ret-con. Although, to be sure, I'm not a Nitpicking Trekkie (anymore). I must say...one of the things that stood out to me (quite negatively) this time, was how many Phaser cannons there were on the USS Kelvin and the Enterprise, and protruding ones at that! Overkill. That fact coupled with the gunfight at the climax (inside the Narada) where everyone's phasers were set to kill, made me very worried, to say the least. This is STAR TREK not Star Wars. Don't get me wrong, I love Star Wars. But I REALLY love Star Trek, and as much as I dug the film (and will see and support it again on imax), I was troubled to see Star Wars philosphy (I mean that in all aspects of the phrase) encroaching on the beauty of Mr. Roddenberry's ideological legacy. I hope they can address and fix that in the next installment. [To be sure, I can see how a mysterious, Romulan terrorist attack could drastically affect the Federation's modus operandi, and thus make Starfleet more militaristic, but that just saddens me to think a new generation of folks may think that ST is like SW, when it is the opposite.]
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« Reply #22 on: 05 28, 2009, 12:13: PM »

I have to say, I found the film to be fast moving and entertaining and very enjoyable.  Certainly the best film I've seen in a while.  It was very much worth two hours of my life and £7 to go and see it.

It did have alot of holes in the plot. At the time though, I didn't notice them.  It was only afterwards when I had some time to think I found myself going "Hang on a minute...."

I would say Go and see it, go with no preconceptions or prejudices...(or wait for the dvd, either way, the principle is the same)  you  will probably enjoy it but you may not.  either way, at least judge it for yourself and don't let other people make up your mind for you.

In the end (and its probably sacrelidge to say this, lol).. its just a film, albeit a film that in my opinion is a very good one and the best yet of the trek films.
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« Reply #23 on: 05 31, 2009, 10:34: PM »

Quote
Kehlan:   It did have alot of holes in the plot. At the time though, I didn't notice them.  It was only afterwards when I had some time to think I found myself going "Hang on a minute...."

*laughs* This phenomenon is so prevalent in film and TV that there is a term for it: Fridge Logic. The viewer is doing something completely unrelated hours, days, weeks later -- in this case getting a beer from the refrigerator -- when a glaring plot hole or other inconsistency hits them on the head: “Hey, wait a minute....”  Hitchcock referred to these as “icebox moments,” and they are the bane of writers of all genres. Unfortunately, avoiding them seems to be near the bottom of the collective priority list.

(tvtropes.org is a great resource for writers of all genres, but be warned: it is also great fun and will suck you in like the proverbial quantum singularity. Also, as tends to be the case with wikis, many posters do not to confirm their facts before posting, so cross-check any information with a credible outside source before basing your novel or thesis on something found there.)
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« Reply #24 on: 06 02, 2009, 03:34: AM »

Ooo...Fridge logic and icebox moments. Learn something new everyday. The ideal thing is that you're too busy having fun going along with the story that you don't notice, and even later, don't notice or don't care (upon repeated viewings). I'll definitely check out that website.
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