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Author Topic: Klingon Political System.  (Read 8445 times)
ShinRa
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« on: 05 16, 2008, 06:24: AM »

This is a bit slapdash, but here goes nothing.

I imagine the Klingon Empire to be run similar to the USSR before and during the cold war, possibly with a universally defined culture among it's subject worlds. (ie sharing technology, designs, beliefs) of course I'm basing this purely on what we see of them in the TOS movies (my favorite) especially. "The Undiscovered Country"

Perhaps they had a "military aristocracy" like the Prussians and indeed East Germany had? ie; if you wern't involved with the armed forces somehow you were a nobody.

Would there be a central commitee and a chairman? bureaus and organizations? Gods I could expand upon this so much..

Point is, what do you guys think?
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netlhQIn
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« Reply #1 on: 05 16, 2008, 07:39: AM »

I personally think that's a fair assessment, actually.  Weren't Klingons originally conceptually based on Russians anyway?
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ShinRa
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« Reply #2 on: 05 16, 2008, 07:45: AM »

Well yeah, the similarities were obvious in my opinion..especially by the TOS movie era.

I just thought i'd get opinions and expand upon the analogy.
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qoSagh
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« Reply #3 on: 05 28, 2008, 08:46: AM »

I have always seen Klingons as a strange mix of communism and a privateer based capitalism. What I mean is that on a basic level, the government takes care of all basic needs and thus the taxes are high enough to accomplish this goal. However I think there is a system of bonuses that come to ships that conquer planets or win strategic battles, probably in the form of land grants or bounties. Obviously the higher the rank, the higher the share of the prize. The more prizes won, the more status a family gets, which I think could ultimately lead to council seats. The only way to get these prizes is through military service.

I can also see that business may follow a similar path, in that if there are three farms and one is not producing it's quota, it may be given to whichever of it's neighbors has exceeded it's quota and thus demonstrated ability to manage the operation. Eventually this could lead to a family owning incredibly large tracts of farm land, as long as it is in their ability to manage it.

As for a central committee, well that is in effect what the High Council is. Although I have long theorized that since we use the adjective High there must be lower level councils that run smaller sections of the Empire. I would imagine that there are at least Planetary Councils and System wide Councils (for large enough systems with multiple inhabitable planets). I think that all these councils are set up to be a certain number of the most prominant houses in their respective territory.

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ShinRa
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« Reply #4 on: 05 28, 2008, 08:58: AM »

Heh, someone told me once (I was experimenting with characters) that the idea of a Klingon businessman was ridiculous.

Oh, let me hit him Tongue I mean the USSR proved nicely that a totally government run economy will not work properly.

But politically, yes i'd say the Klingon Empire is very much like the cold war USSR.
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ter'eS
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« Reply #5 on: 05 28, 2008, 10:20: PM »

I mean the USSR proved nicely that a totally government run economy will not work properly.


This is true of the soviet economy, but it fell victim primarily to the effects of human nature.  The Russian workforce just weren't good communists, and played the system to their personal advantage whenever they could, so you had falsifying of production data, diversion of state funds to private pockets, nepotism, malingering, etc.  Given the Klingon's almost religious devotion to the ideas of honor and duty to the Empire, they might be far more likely to "do the right thing", in which case a planned economy might be workable.
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chalvatlh
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« Reply #6 on: 06 10, 2008, 03:50: PM »

This is true of the soviet economy, but it fell victim primarily to the effects of human nature.  The Russian workforce just weren't good communists, and played the system to their personal advantage whenever they could, so you had falsifying of production data, diversion of state funds to private pockets, nepotism, malingering, etc.  Given the Klingon's almost religious devotion to the ideas of honor and duty to the Empire, they might be far more likely to "do the right thing", in which case a planned economy might be workable.
Indeed, remember the DS9 epidose "The House of Quark"?  In this episode, Quark was able to reveal by going over a the House of Kozak's financial records (something which the house's members had refused to do) that another Klingon, D'Ghor, had driven this house into debt using sly financial tactics, and this was enough to get D'Ghor discommendated.  Actually, though, the paperwork was not evidence enough to the court; they only found D'Ghor guilty because they witnessed him about to perform a dishonorable act (attacking Quark when he was unarmed).
I'm thinking many Klingons are sort of categorical imperativists.  That is to say, they take the question "What would become of the Empire if everybody acted the way I did?" very seriously.  Of course, as we saw in the case of D'Ghor and the House of Kozak, this may spawn a form of naivety that is leaves the doors wide open for abuse.

"The charge has been made! You are accused of using... money to bring down a Great House!"  //Chancellor Gowron
« Last Edit: 06 13, 2008, 04:35: PM by Fraek » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: 06 17, 2008, 06:50: PM »

 
    There are two separate issues that can be discussed separately.  The Government system which is who makes the decisions of laws and how legal decisions are made and the economic system which reflects who makes the economic decisions and how the economic decisions are made.

    The Government system we perhaps don't have to speculate so much "is it like X or like Y"...  Kirk defines as a "military dictatorship" in TOS.   This seems to fit the Big Brother theme in "Errand of Mercy" but isn't further explained beyond that.   By the time we get to TNG it's change to a limited Despotism with the High Council serving to moderate and act as balance and conscience to the Chancellor.   Also I would add to this the leadership of the Great Houses when they are strong and powerful also are influential and able to resist the will of the Chancellor and High Council even if they are not represented on the Council by threat of starting a Civil war.

    There is another thread on the Klingon Economic system.   But I think it's is clear from Fraek's evidence that the Klingon economy is clearly not at all a command driven top-down communist system, but rather a very much laid back bottom-up paws-off laissefaire form of Capitalism.  The Government has no interest in regulating the Klingon economy and only intervenes when it affects the power of balance in a way that is seen as dishonorable.

    I don't really see much of an analogy in fore or and especially not in hindsight to the Klingon Government and Economy to Soviet Russia.   The Klingon Government is run by an individual selected by his power and influence in the Empire as a whole regardless of ideology rather than a candidates picked by a single political party.   The Klingon Empire tends to conquer worlds outright and appoint Klingons as Planetary Governors, expanding as a traditional Empire rather than inciting revolutions in it's neighbours with their own local Communist leaders, then annexing them as client states.
   

   
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« Reply #8 on: 12 05, 2008, 10:53: AM »

It is a difficult one to be sure, especially as one of the parts of Communism (If i am remembering correctly) was that a society must pass through capitalism first and then grow beyond it in a manner of speaking (Although this is most certainly not what happened in Russia). I am not sure i see a solid connection with Russia and the Klingon system as the high council is more similar to the transition era diet (In my opinion). I would say it is more a hybrid of several systems. The gigantomania of Soviet Russia is missing in domestic terms where as the military has the expansionist habits of an imperialist nation as opposed to Holding what they have in a cold dead lock (Rather like TNG era Romulus) It seems more feudal to me with mixes of several other geopolitical systems.
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« Reply #9 on: 01 19, 2009, 12:06: AM »

I see the Klingon Empire as being a very aristocratic government that still largely bases its government on very old connections with Blood lines and Traditional nobles. The High Council seems to be a remaining body from days when the Emperor rules. However with the lack of a Emperor they rule instead. Membership to this body seems to be graned from within it not from election of any sort. Great house seem to retain their own rights much like noble house. If any thing the House of Duras shows that a certien level of private military force is held by most great Houses. One can note that the Traditional minedness of the Klingons by point to a overwelming desire to keep old traps from bygoone times rather than finding mmore fair means of governing. The old idea that Klingons were modeled on the old USSR died when TNG started to explore the culture. From that point on I believed it was based on more noble driven models.
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