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Author Topic: Klingon-fish  (Read 10413 times)
Kesvirit
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« on: 08 12, 2007, 08:07: AM »

In the Cheese thread, Kehlan asks about Klingon fish dishes. Out of curiosity I put Klingon fish through a search engine. The first hit featured this image of a Klingon fish. Once I realized what I was looking at I burst out laughing. I had no idea that so much allopatric speciation had taken place since I originally slapped a Darwin fish plaque on my shuttle ten years ago.

-=- Kesvirit
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Kehlan
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« Reply #1 on: 08 12, 2007, 09:27: AM »

Nice find Kesvirit. I like the little batleth its holding.

I had to smile though - If it hadn't been my own question you were referring to I would have been seriously wondering why anyone would ask about fish in a cheese thread.

Kehlan
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qoSagh
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« Reply #2 on: 08 12, 2007, 12:42: PM »

Interesting concept. I wonder though if being that it has feet, it is not more of a Klingon lizard or perhaps even a Dragon? Could it be the Durgath, himself?

Aesthetically I think it would have been better without the feet, as the feet on the fish are a Darwin joke, which is funny to humans only because of the creation vs evolution debate and might be missed by someone from another planet. That and I have always thought of the Klingons as being somewhat creationist (despite seeing the Proto-Worf spit venom).

Has anyone checked the lettering to see what it spells? I would not be surprised if it said ghoti, but that is just a guess.

As for the Fish and Cheese, I think I remember that certain types of Trout fishing use cheese as bait, so perhaps there is a connection, if only that the fish is a cheese predator.

Although I am risking over analyzing this joke, I also remember a story in a fanzine that had the first betleth actually being made from the jawbone of a large fish. That is the image I use as part of the qlIStIy house symbol.
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qoSagh qlIStIy
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« Reply #3 on: 08 12, 2007, 03:49: PM »

Has anyone checked the lettering to see what it spells?

It says tlhIngan.
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Kesvirit
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« Reply #4 on: 08 13, 2007, 02:30: AM »

Quote
quoth Kehlan:If it hadn't been my own question you were referring to I would have been seriously wondering why anyone would ask about fish in a cheese thread.

::grin:: Hence the introductory sentence. I thought that if I didn’t start off with the connection, people would never get to the image links. They would get stuck thinking, “Cheese? Fish? What?”

Quote
quoth qoSagh: As for the Fish and Cheese, I think I remember that certain types of Trout fishing use cheese as bait, so perhaps there is a connection, if only that the fish is a cheese predator.

I recently saw the cheese-as-trout-bait mentioned at an aquarium display and am still puzzled by it. Cheese is not one of the trout’s natural foods. It cannot even be seen as an acquired taste by discerning trout, as they can only taste it once.


Moving on... The word for the original Jesus-fish (which came from earlier religions; a story for another time and place) was IXOYE, the Greek word for “fish”, which is also an anagram for [Iota, Chi, Theta, Upsilon, Sigma] -- Iota-Jesus, Chi-Christ, Theta-God's, Upsilon-Son, Sigma-Savior.

Icthyostega, the animal given the dubious honor as the source of the original Darwin-fish riff, was a (serendipitously?) appropriate choice as much for its name (ichthyos is a Latinization of IXOYE) as for its role as one of the classic transitional forms (in this case between fish and amphibians). It has the same general shape as the IXOYE fish symbol, if you squint: figure B of this graphic was the predominantly accepted reconstruction at the time. (Figure C dates from the initial discovery in the 1930’s; figure A is a revision from new material from 2005.)

(Aside:
Quote
quoth qoSagh: Aesthetically I think it would have been better without the feet, as the feet on the fish are a Darwin joke,
The feet are necessary -- it’s the upward sweep of the tail that renders the image inaccurate. But of course the form is meant to be an abstraction, not an accurate rendering. ::tosses nit to Fluffy:: )

The point to which I have been building -- and I do have one -- is that to carry to spoof all the way to its conclusion, the letters on the Klingon-fish should spell GHOTI!* It’s creators totally missed the point! They set up a great joke but blew the punchline! The fish meme must be continued from one emblem to the next if the decent-with-modification principle that is the whole point of the Darwin-fish is to be observed! The pun of the word must accompany the pun of the shape! AAAARGH! ::pant pant pant::

Having gotten that out of my system, does anyone think the Klingon-fish would be more fitting shown with a Daqtaq instead of a betleH? The betleH requires two-handed use to be effective, which would force such a creature up onto it's hindlegs to properly work it. Such a creature would be physically unable to do that. On the other lobed foot, a Daqtaq is easily used with one, uh, appendage, something the original Klingon-fish could most likely have managed.

Quote
quoth qoSagh: Although I am risking over analyzing this joke,
Hmph. Impossible.



Epilogue:

There is also a hardcore Christian with his own church by the name of Darwin Fish.

Both the Jesus-fish and the Darwin-fish have "evolved" in all sorts of directions, exploiting new niches. Even the Flying Spaghetti Monster has one, though I suppose that was only a matter of time. Here are a few sample pages (sensitive readers may wish to avoid these -- consider yourselves warned!):
Trek-fish
http://web.archive.org/web/20010206185157/www.meangene.com/darwin/taxonomy.html
http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/emblems.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20010331174934/www.evolvefish.com/fish/emblems.html
http://www.cafepress.com/heathenry (see also the menu on the left side of the page)


*Addendum: Oh, yes -- {ghoti} is thlIngan Hol for “fish”. Details, details....
« Last Edit: 08 13, 2007, 04:09: AM by Kesvirit » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: 08 16, 2007, 02:42: PM »

Even looking at those sites, the other fishy symbols are all based on the original fish. The Klingon one is based on the derivative Darwin Fish. I would think that based on the original Jesus Fish would be funnier, especially since the betleth and the tlhingan lettering are what makes the fish Klingon. Think of the Rocket Ship one that says "Science" it is funny because being a sideways ship is looks like the fish, but it would be very strange indeed if the ship had feet as well as the fin/wing shapes at the end.

As for ghoti, I had actually forgotten the Klingon implications which I agree would have completed the pun nicely. I was thinking of it purely in it's English language capacity when I first wrote it.

Maybe a better way to do a Klingon fish would be a fish with ridges along the back.
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qoSagh qlIStIy
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« Reply #6 on: 08 17, 2007, 08:00: PM »

     I'm s bit surprised Kesvirit missed the Leslie Fish, given her notoriety for writting Trek songs that are so popular they need to be banned.  Cheesy Klingon Grin

     As for as the Klingon Fish, I agree ghotI' is the better in-joke and a meqletlh not only would be easier to wield, but would look better and be more to scale.   It doesn't look too hard to create such a design, form a mold and then cast a few out of resin...  I might be so bold as to attempt this some time in the future. 

     Maybe not soon though...
« Last Edit: 02 06, 2008, 01:06: AM by Klythe » Logged
Abbot Nej vIt
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« Reply #7 on: 08 18, 2007, 09:49: AM »

Has anyone checked the lettering to see what it spells?

It says tlhIngan.

I actually matched it up to my little pIqaD template right before seeing your post...*Chuckle*... It is good that who ever designed this at least took the time to get the lettering correct!

maj! {Good}...
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Kesvirit
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« Reply #8 on: 08 18, 2007, 01:35: PM »

I'm s bit surprised Kesvirit missed the Leslie Fish, given her notoriety for righting Trek songs that are so popular they need to be banned.  Cheesy Klingon Grin

She was swimming so fast that I couldn't catch her! After all, having just been banned, she was on the run -- er, swim -- to reach the nearest spaceport, just one step -- er, stroke -- ahead of the Argosian authorities!

Quote
As for as the Klingon Fish, I agree ghotI' is the better in-joke and a mekletlh not only would be easier to wield, but would look better and be more to scale.

You think a fish wielding a mekleH would be more distinctively Klingon than one with a Daqtaq? I don't , for the simple reason that those who learned of things Klingon from the screens have been shown many Daqtaqmey* but few (if any) mekleHmey**.



*plural of Daqtaq, the three-bladed knife
**plural of mekleH, a kind of sword
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Kesvirit
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« Reply #9 on: 08 28, 2007, 04:21: AM »

qoSagh wrote upthread: "Maybe a better way to do a Klingon fish would be a fish with ridges along the back."

Why along the back, as opposed to roughly the first third of the skull and spine as shown in the picture?

(Amazing what the sleep-deprived mind chooses to focus on... }}: \)

-=- Kesvirit

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« Reply #10 on: 08 28, 2007, 02:17: PM »

I  have the Jesus fish, but mine says "Vampire" and has fangs.
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Lt.Col. K'Allen sutai-bortaS
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« Reply #11 on: 11 17, 2009, 07:25: PM »

woW love it (course RL last name is Fish soo) I use name of Rametlh made long ago when we was just starting Klingon trnaslator for web as my name second name i use is Biq'Ves (warfish) that fits great , wish i had some coin to buy a shirt but my disability aint kicked in yet.
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