Klingon Imperial Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
12 12, 2017, 12:58: AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
The boards are having problems with email. We are advising members to set your secret questions and answers in case the board can't send email to let you reset lost passwords.
11894 Posts in 1664 Topics by 689 Members
Latest Member: regdun234
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  Klingon Imperial Forums
|-+  Klingon Language & Culture
| |-+  Klingon Religion & Beliefs
| | |-+  Klingons and religions of "The Force"
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Klingons and religions of "The Force"  (Read 7807 times)
Fleet Admiral toQDuj epetai jonwi
Scribe
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15


« on: 05 15, 2007, 10:23: AM »

Personally-I'm a Jedi!

[Split topic and changed topic title   -Klythe]
« Last Edit: 05 21, 2007, 07:42: PM by Klythe » Logged

Today is a good day to drink!-mine's a large Bloodwine.
Klythe
ngem Sargh lIghwI' pagh cha'
Administrator
Thought Master
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1071


When a show of teeth doesn't work, bite deeply.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: 05 15, 2007, 05:50: PM »

 
      Actually....  Since I was in a StarWars/Star trek crossover roleplaying forum, I have thought about Klingon force users...   But hat is quite off topic.   Or is it?   Well, it's off the topic of Kahless as a religious figure, so if you want to discuss Klingons and the Jedi religions, you should make a new topic.  I think it would be an appropriate topic in this forum.
Logged
naQ
Scribe
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 20


« Reply #2 on: 05 20, 2007, 02:17: AM »

 
      Actually....  Since I was in a StarWars/Star trek crossover roleplaying forum, I have thought about Klingon force users...   But hat is quite off topic.   Or is it?   Well, it's off the topic of Kahless as a religious figure, so if you want to discuss Klingons and the Jedi religions, you should make a new topic.  I think it would be an appropriate topic in this forum.

I use the Force, but I don't call it that, more like the Universe or Eternal Buddha in time long-past, and it's something I try to identify myself with. I think I'm trying to make it more Klingon, hence the above.
But yeah, a Force-topic would definately be good.
Logged
Fleet Admiral toQDuj epetai jonwi
Scribe
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15


« Reply #3 on: 05 21, 2007, 09:28: PM »

 Evil Hee hee-Klingon Jedi?-or omigawsh-KLINGON SITH!-a Light Bat'legh-I just gotta see!-well a spiritual beings Klingons probably would embrace at least some part of Jedism-perhaps not the more esoteric "hippy" side to jedi belief though-ever wondered if "thought master" may be related to this?
Logged

Today is a good day to drink!-mine's a large Bloodwine.
Kehlan
Senior Strategist
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 521



WWW
« Reply #4 on: 05 22, 2007, 08:33: AM »

No disrespect to anyone, but how is it possible to actually use the force in the real world?  It was a fictional concept developed for a fictional series of movies by George Lucas a little over 25 years ago.

the same goes for Jedi.  I honestly don't understand how it can be a "real" religion for the same reasons. Oh, i know some people claim to be Jedi but their light sabres don't really work and they can't do any of the stuff that the Jedi are supposed to be able to do.

It's fair enough in fiction and for a character to be able to do this and believe in it, but how does it translate to the "real" world in the way that those people say it does?


Kehlan
Logged

Captain Kehlan
USS Endeavour NCC-71805
Federation/Klingon Rapid Response Fleet
Klythe
ngem Sargh lIghwI' pagh cha'
Administrator
Thought Master
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1071


When a show of teeth doesn't work, bite deeply.


WWW
« Reply #5 on: 05 22, 2007, 08:43: PM »


      I haven't seen anyone who believes in Christ performing any of the miracles Christ performed, such as turning water to wine, walking on water or feeding thousands with 4 fishes and five loaves of bread.  Except that someone along the way appears to have cured leperosy.  I'll mark that as a major miracle. Cheesy Klingon Grin   You can take any major religion and try to explain it to an alien and they'll think you are crazy.   "You believe what happens when you die?  Really?  You aren't joking?  Wow.  hyoomins are weird."

      For purposes of this discussion, I've converted to Omni Quantism.  That is the belief that if there is a power that created this universe, then for that power all things are possible.  If all things are possible, then it is possible for all religions to be true, even the ones that contradict each other or our perceptions about reality.   

    Since we are talking about a fictional race of bumpy-headed aliens created by Gene Roddenberry, it makes no sense to judge the truth of sci-fi religions in this topic.  Klingon religion is no better than any Terran religion, "Kahless filed the lake with tears?  But I thought Klingons had no tear ducts?!"    We are talking about fictional people, and appearently these fictional people can believe contradictory tings just as well as any Terran..

    If you actually believe you have force powers in real life, You either should go on TV an become famous showing off your tricks, or you should talk to a councilor or a psychologist.  We are talking about fictional people here, who live in a universe with differrnt rules than ours has.

    Now all that said...  I don't think that if Klingons were in a universe with Midichlorians and the Force, I don't think they would care for mch of any of the Jedi teachings.   In particular the Jedi code

Quote
    There is no emotion; there is peace.
    There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
    There is no passion; there is serenity.
   There is no chaos; there is harmony.  [ present only in one source]
    There is no death; there is the Force.

Three (or four) of these lines, most Klingons would immediately dismiss as entirely wrong and weak.  And the last one.. Klingons aren't big seekers of Knowledge, but they don't seek ignorance either.   
   
Logged
Kehlan
Senior Strategist
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 521



WWW
« Reply #6 on: 05 22, 2007, 09:42: PM »


      I haven't seen anyone who believes in Christ performing any of the miracles Christ performed, such as turning water to wine, walking on water or feeding thousands with 4 fishes and five loaves of bread. 
   

Except that in the real world, I do not claim to be Christ or to have any of his skills.  If I did I would be in serious need of a psychiatrist and a nice padded room.

If you actually believe you have force powers in real life, You either should go on TV an become famous showing off your tricks, or you should talk to a councilor or a psychologist.  We are talking about fictional people here, who live in a universe with differrnt rules than ours has.

Well, yes, exactly, thats what I said!  however, Naq's post above said "I use the force!"

That was not "My fictional RP character uses the force" but strongly implied use of the force in the real world.

With all due respect to Naq, whatever we choose to call it, it is fictional, so how can he or anyone else claim to use it?

Logged

Captain Kehlan
USS Endeavour NCC-71805
Federation/Klingon Rapid Response Fleet
elninjo
Senior Courier
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71


« Reply #7 on: 05 23, 2007, 05:24: AM »

On my sensis form the question is "asked what religion" I always put Jedi knight..

Kehlan wrote:
Quote
Oh, i know some people claim to be Jedi but their light sabres don't really work and they can't do any of the stuff that the Jedi are supposed to be able to do.

Oh Kehlan, surely you jest? jk

Klythe wrote:
Quote
That is the belief that if there is a power that created this universe, then for that power all things are possible.

A leap of faith Klythe? Taking a "leap of faith" to prove all things are possible?

Ahhh religion......my favorite topic.....

Ok Ok I oppologize in advance......couldn't help myself....Please don't ban me Klythe.

Cheers
Logged
Joegun
Novice
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


« Reply #8 on: 05 23, 2007, 08:10: AM »

Wether it can or cannot be used in real life, or the real world, doesn't really matter to me.  I like the idea of it, and i figure the Klingon's would probably have their own faction, and would try to crush both the sith and the jedi, along with the republic.  At least, that's what I figure.  Not that I'm saying there wouldn't be any Klingon sith or jedi, I just think that they would probably stick to their race, and be the ruling political power, as well as super elite troopers.
Logged
Kehlan
Senior Strategist
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 521



WWW
« Reply #9 on: 05 23, 2007, 09:01: AM »

Oh yeah!, I agree Joegun.  I love the idea of it.  Jedi are cool.  And El ninjo, many people write Jedi in the religioins box on forms, probably for similar reasons that I refuse to fill in the answer (I don't think the people I am giving the form to have a right to that information - ie I'm an awkward sod!).  However, I do get the idea that you do not seriously believe you are a Jedi Knight with all the abilities etc.

that is the point I was trying to make.  Even in the Star Wars world, not everyone could become a Jedi, they had to have certian abilities and even then they didn't always get accepted in.  so for a real world person to say not only "I am a Jedi" but "I use the force"....  Well, I am sorry but I genuinely do not understand how anyone can think it is real.

Yes, I know, that opens up the question of how anyone can believe that Christianity/Islam/insert your religion here is real and the only real answer is that its a matter of faith.  So, yes, your Jedi believer can say the same, its a matter of faith.  But how can you genuinely believe in a fictional religion invented by George Lucas for a movie?

Having said that, if I lived in the Star Wars universe, I would definitely want to be a Jedi!
Logged

Captain Kehlan
USS Endeavour NCC-71805
Federation/Klingon Rapid Response Fleet
Joegun
Novice
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 8


« Reply #10 on: 05 27, 2007, 09:44: AM »

Oh yeah, that would just be cool.  I have to agree with ya Kahlen, that it would be far fetched to believe that someone could use the force as it is portrayed in the movies.  But, I like to think that sooner or later humans will develop something akin to it, like telekinesis for example.  but, i guess that's alittle off the subject.  I was wondering though, do ya think that a Klingon jedi/sith(force user?) would use a lightsaber, or a bat'leth(sorry if i butchered the spelling on that), or maybe something else?  I just can't see a lightsaber bat'leth mix. To be honest I don't have any idea as to what a Klingon jedi would use, outside of some bad looking cloaking ship ^_^.  Would he wear the robes, or the armor?  or maybe some kinda new mix?  Sorry, I forgot what the topic was, and these questions just popped into my head.
Logged
netlhQIn
Courier
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 38


« Reply #11 on: 04 09, 2008, 03:54: PM »

This thread's fairly old, and I'm sure I'll be hexed by some for waking it back up, but I'm a glutton for such discussion and can't help myself.

Hooked on Phonics works for me!  ...In all actuality I was in high school by the time phonics entered the school systems in my area, and it doesn't work for everybody - it works for those whose minds are "wired" in such a way that they find thinking in such ways easier than in the traditional method of learning to read.  Is one method more valid than the other?  Not at all. 

A similar statement may be made for those who profess that they practice Klingon or Jedi theology.  You can't really call it invalid.  If they believe in it, it's their belief system.  If you decide to start worshiping the holy milkshake blender, who am I to say that it's not a valid faith?

Would you suggest that Wicca (which in reality is a fairly recently invented theology regardless of how much lip service is paid to "old ways") is invalid because it doesn't have a centuries old book outlining its dogma?  I'd be willing to bet a lot of Star Wars fans know a lot more about the Force than some Wiccans know about Wicca, or for that matter some Christians know about Christianity.  [I'll note that I'm using Christianity and Wicca as examples because from my experience, the majority of Trek fans fall into these two theologies.  Exclusion of other faiths are not meant as a dishonor in any fashion]

Do you believe that Priests of the Christian faith truly, truly transubstantiate wine into the blood of Christ with a few mumbled words in Latin (or, as many now do, in English)?  How is that any more or less amazing than the idea that a real-life Jedi is capable of healing themselves or performing amazing feats of dexterity or strength by using the Force?  Neither of these things is portrayed as having been done by the source of the faith, but by followers of the faith.  "I use the Force," is a statement that can mean a lot more than someone imagining themselves telekinetically moving things around and lifting SUV's out of a bog.  It can be used as a metaphore for the feeling of being alive in the world and alert to one's surroundings - somehting extremely similar to many descriptions of Nirvana. 

Being an atheist, I don't view stories from the Bible as being any more or less valid than stories told by Lucas or Roddenberry.  They all give advice on how one may live well, each from its own standpoint.  They don't agree on all points, but if all stories did we wouldn't have gotten very far as a multi-cultural species. 

"Jedi" is a term practically every one of us can identify with.  Even if they've by some miracle managed not to have seen any Star Wars movies, most people in America and many other places will understand what the word implies.  Thus it is useful as a label in describing one who tries to the best of their ability to exemplify that meaning.  That the word is derived from science fiction has no impact whatsoever on its validity.  You understand what he means, so it's a good word to use, or at least it's likely the best word we know of that can be used.

This also carries over into those who declare they adhere in real life to a Klingon theology (of any stripe).  Sure, it may sound a little silly to you but that gives you no right to say it's invalid.  When it comes right down to it, most religions in science fiction are based on those currently existant on modern planet earth.  The names have been changed to protect the innocent, but the sentiments are still there.  Some people wear a suit to church, while others wear a pair of slacks and a cardigan.  That these people choose to dress differently has no bearing on the validity of their faith.  So why would the words they choose to dress their faith have any bearing on its validity?

From all I've seen of Star Trek (which, honestly is a fair amount, but by no means all-encompassing) very little in any of the series has much to do with the Force as it's described in Star Wars.  I think trying to cross the fiction is a bit silly, but doing so hasn't to this point negatively effected me, so go on with your bad self, says I! 
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!