When does a fan become part of the empire

[tilk]

It is a funny question that to this day, haunts me. So I put it to the council of senior Klingon fans. I have alot of klingon stuff. learnt a little of the language, made the suit, go to many different klingon sites, that still burn brightly, but do not(in my own mind) feel I have the right of assention to become a warrior. I suppose, It is mainly because I have very few songs to sing, few stories of battles won, no victories to speak of.

It is not a sad story, but really a reflection of the respect i have for the dedicate few that have battled so long to sustain this fandom.

It is funny, I have never grown tied of the klingon fiction, the depth of fantasy it presents, the potential it has yet to reveil, possibly to a world that no longer understands them. Even though, many may not know what I klingon looks like, All know of them.

So for the brave few, that are not so fickle to change with the breeze but to stay true to the calling;(not saying myself, but generally) But when do they possess the heart of a warrior?

[qoSagh]

Interesting question, which I think depends entirely on another question. That would be, what do we consider the "empire" to be? Is it Klingon fandom in general, a specific club or group of clubs, only the fictional empire that is presented by Paraborg?

If the Empire is the whole of Klingon fandom, then one simply must be a Klingon fan to be included. The possession of stuff, including the uniform and prosthetics is almost irrelevant to such a definition. I am not sure that time in fandom is much of a factor, because there are those who have been fans for a long time, yet have done nothing to better the fandom they enjoy.

If the Empire is a specific club (yes I know there is a club by this name) or group of clubs, then membership would depend on their regulations. I do not tend to like this definition simply because it is limiting, and would likely cause a majority of the fans out there to no longer be citizens of the empire. There are many that are not part of any organized group, let alone the correct group, for such a definition.

If the Empire is only the fictional empire that we have been shown, then none of us are truly members until we become fictional characters in one of those depictions. This would indeed be a sad state of affairs.

I personally think that the truth lies somewhere close to my first guess, that the Empire is the whole of Klingon fandom, what these boards helped me define as tlInghom. That simply by being a Klingon fan (or fan of the Klingons) you have become a citizen of the Empire. How productive a citizen you are is entirely up to you. But by this definition, you are one of us. I also think that your fan film is likely to catapult you past where many of us have ever tread before.

[SoplaHtaHwI']

If the Empire is the whole of Klingon fandom, then one simply must be a Klingon fan to be included. The possession of stuff, including the uniform and prosthetics is almost irrelevant to such a definition. I am not sure that time in fandom is much of a factor, because there are those who have been fans for a long time, yet have done nothing to better the fandom they enjoy.

I agree wholeheartedly  with this definition. I care not for how long one has been fan, what one has done as a fan or whatever. As long as one keeps the fandom (tlhInghom)(nice, albeit possibly syntacticly wrong summary qoSagh) alive, one fights on the side of the Empire.

But by this definition, you are one of us. I also think that your fan film is likely to catapult you past where many of us have ever tread before.

When I see how some of you mould your being a Klingon fan, I feel ashamed...

[Klythe]

    I know people in Klingon fan clubs that aren't even Klingon, they just like to dress up as Klingons for the attention(media and otherwise).  Personally, I think that you are a Klingon the instant you try to reach beyond all your hyooman experiences and put yourself in a Klingon mindset.  If you can look at something familiar, something you may see everyday and set aside all your previous thoughts and feelings about it and consider the object as you think a Klingon would, then you are a truly a Klingon in your heart and mind.   Really, participating in these and similar forums that try to discover more about Klingon culture is probably the most Klingon thing anyone can do.  Of course, I *could* *just* be biases...   *slightly*.

[SoplaHtaHwI']

    I know people in Klingon fan clubs that aren't even Klingon, they just like to dress up as Klingons for the attention(media and otherwise).  Personally, I think that you are a Klingon the instant you try to reach beyond all your hyooman experiences and put yourself in a Klingon mindset.  If you can look at something familiar, something you may see everyday and set aside all your previous thoughts and feelings about it and consider the object as you think a Klingon would, then you are a truly a Klingon in your heart and mind.   Really, participating in these and similar forums that try to discover more about Klingon culture is probably the most Klingon thing anyone can do.  Of course, I *could* *just* be biases...   *slightly*.

I've often thought about that too... Some things become very... trivial, when you look at them from a Klingon PoV...

[qoSagh]

I agree that exploring the culture and asking questions, probably entitles you to more than just joining a club and plodding around in costume. Which is in fact saying that what you do in fandom is more important than how long you have been a fan. I think forums like these go a long way to exploring the rich culture that is Klingon.

Perhaps like the concept in Starship Troopers, that in order to be a citizen, one had to fight as a soldier, there is a Klingon equivalent. Since almost all Klingons fight, perhaps that is not what separates us, perhaps it is the exploration and discovery that truly makes us citizens of this our most glorious empire.

Oh and as for syntax, some of us discussed tlhInghom a while back, on these very forums:
http://www.klingon.org/smboard/index.php/topic,740.0.html

[Abbot Nej vIt]

tilk,

I like this question for a couple of reasons, and similarly dislike it for others...

The esteemed meycha qoSagh has covered very nicely most every practical point that I might have been inclined to make myself, so rather than rehashing that, I will instead point out Two of the aspects of this question which I like...

- Honesty... All too often I run into self styled "Klingon Experts" (Some might even argue that I fall into this catagory myself), who are more opinionated than actually knowledgable... And thus grant themselves a certain "Status" as Klingons... You chose to inquire about something you were not certain of... I Respect that...

- Respect... You have graciously recognized the time and effort that others have put into their Klingon persona/ Involvement in Klindom (Klingon Fandom)... An excellent place from which to approach...

The only element of this question which I had possible cause to object to, was the implication that anyone has the authority to "Dictate" who can or can not consider themselves to be a member of the Klingon Empire... (A wholey fictional government, in a Fictional Universe)...

That said, I would encourage that if you wish to be a member of the Klingon Empire, than announce loudly and proudly that you in fact are... If any should be foolish enough to challenge the point, you will likely find out quickly rather you are in good company or not, by the level of support you receive in response... If on the other hand you are looking for more of a "Formal" introduction to a Fan Club, then that is another thing entirely, but being that there are several members of several different Organizations who frequent these forums, I am sure that you would be well instructed (And received), were you to contact any of us privately...

I suggest Private contact because KIDC is it's own organization, and as much as I would like to "Recruit" For K.L.A.W. 4th Fleet and or TE, I feel that private discussions about such matters are more appropriate to a public forum...

Regardless, I know that I am not alone in looking forward to seeing your film project come to light, and would anticipate that your contributions to the Klingon Kommunity through such means clearly define your interest and dedication to Klindom, and as such easily ensures your place within that Kommunity...

maj! {Good}....

[Kaptain WanraK]

majQa! Honorable Abbot Nej vIt

I could not agree more.

[qoSagh]

At the risk of being more opinionated than knowledgable, I would say that no one holds the ultimate authority to dictate who is and is not a citizen of the Empire. This is evident in the sheer number of Chancellors & Emperors that are out there in tlhInghom. Obviously they do not recognize each other's authority and do not encourage others to do so either.

However, if there is any real authority within this (or any other) fandom, it is likely a consensus standard. These forums are the only place I have found where such a standard could be developed, because of the number of different organizations represented. The sum total of all our replies to tilk's question is, in effect, that consensus standard in a basic form.

I do like the idea that the first step to citizenship is to simply declare yourself a citizen. If there are challenges to such a claim, I would expect a Klingon to bring them forth promptly and probably loudly. Perhaps this also answers the question about non-Klingons living in the Empire. The lack of a challenge is in and of itself acceptance. The only real hole I can find in that theory, is that if there was even a small question of legitimacy, such challenges could come over and over again as the one meets new people. One who has much to defend, might spend a lifetime defending it.

[Klythe]

      Some Klingons spend a lifetime trying to prove their honor.   Some find ways to legitimize themselves to remove the doubt.   I think many of the Emporers and Chancellors pick those titles for the legitimacy they think the title gives them.  If you are known, then you need not fear a challenge as your reputation as a Klingon stands on it's own.  If you are not known, you must show your heart to each person, and soon enough, you will be known.  Most Klingons will grant such status fairly generously, as it is effortless to revoke when someone has proven themselves unworthy as a Klingon.  Generally, I would have no trouble showing my Klingon heart to someone who does not know me.  I would expect to have to do this in any new Klingon group I meet.

    Though it's probably not appreciated challenge another's Klingon-itude this in front of the public, unless they are about to seriously damage the reputation of Klingons with inappropriate behaviour, such as harassing people who do not wish to play.

[K'Voth]

Having read the replies to this question i find myself to be still unsure as to what to answer. From my personal opinion an individual is a Klingon Citizen from the moment of decleration but what kind of Klingon they are should judged on there actions and the like, just as in most societies you are a member but what component of that society is judged on your behaviour and calling with in that structure, certainly with in any social construct I would prefer to be given room to grow and develop rather than fight for entrance in some protracted way.

[tesseraktik]

To a Klingon, honor is everything.  I suppose then that a member of the Empire is one who is honored by other members of the Empire.  That being said, some might serve the Empire without being honored for it, and one may have a negative impact on the Empire and still be honored; therein lies the difference between being honored and being honorable; therein lies the difference between being a citizen of the Klingon Empire and being Klingon.

[Kragtowl]

Good question but it is not the best question.  The question should be "When am I considered Klingon?"

The simple answer is when you feel the passion and honor for the Klingon culture, then you are Klingon!  Over the years, individuals have asked me, "So dressing out makes you Klingon" and I reply, "No".  Being Klingon has nothing to do with a costume or if you can speak the language.  Being Klingon means you enjoy the culture, you believe and try to practice the concepts of Honor.    Clubs and organizations are a great method of sharing these beliefs and the camaraderie is always good no matter what group!

Klingon is a mind set which is proved by words and deeds!  Being Klingon is by honoring one's word, facing day to day trials head on and striving to always succeed!  The concepts of Honor in today's society are not the same as of old and being Klingon instills those concepts back and makes you feel good about yourself.

Just my point of view!