Tactics

[J'Maq]

In a combat situation, say a Klingon warrior is being pursued by a squad of Jem'Hadar. Rather than employing hit and run tactics with a disruptor, the Klingon arms himself with a bat'leth or mek'leth--
and charges into the Jem'Hadar camp, hacking and slashing his way to glory. Question: Is the Klingon
who uses a disruptor in battle--to his advantage--any less of a warrior than the one who uses a bladed weapon in battle?
I admit, the Klingon wielding the bat'leth seems more. . .worthy of admiration, but is that practical?

 

[Klythe]

    Many Klingons would use hit and run tactics with a disruptor.  And this is good.  Keep in mind what we see on TV is only a small slice of what actually happens in the universe.  Arguably that small slice selected for it's dramatic value, not it's representation of the (fictional) reality. 

    Against many opponents, I don't even use blades if I deem the opponents sufficiently unworthy of being considered a real threat.   But I am not above using disruptors (handheld or ship mounted) against the more worthy opponents.  There is a balance in all things.   While it is true that "Survival does not imply success, and mere death does not ensure defeat", it also is true that being dead will prevent you from gaining additional victories, successes and honor in this life.

    Underarming yourself is often a gambit to risk failure in hopes to gain more glory.  Although there are strategic advantages.  If done properly, opponents can be demoralized, frightened or made to underestimate you.

[tilk]

this is one of my favorite subjects. Many propaganda episodes of feeble federation heros show themselves dispatching klingons with almost effortless ease. Do not believe your eyes.
Klingons are warriors as we all know. the way of the warrior is victory above all. For there is no greater honor than victory in battle.
it is the hero that plays by rules of engagment, so their lazy minds and sharp tongues can soften your resolve to victory. But do not be decieved! Klingon are warriors, not heros. they use any and all tactic to be glorious in battle. If this means, disruptors, deception, hand to hand, retreat, stealth, ambush, outnumbering, they will use it. Klingons are advanced and industrious. they are one of the few species that are required to be the master of many disciplines and show no tolerance to failure. becuse of this, they strive for victory above all.

OH! hi everyone.

[Klythe]

    Welcome back, haven't seen you for a while Tilk.

    Not Victory above all.   Honor must be considered.  Glory and the expression of klingon superiority are also important.   Is a cowardly victory worth more than a brave defeat?   If you win in such a way that you appear desperate and weak, you will soon have to fight the battle again.   If you fight forcefully to a standstill or even a minor defeat, your opponent is more llikely to consider themselves lucky, and may not press an advantage the think they may have.  Then the tide of battle turns and the initiative is yours to take.

[Kehlan]

Of course honour is going to be important - even when the enemy is not honourable, a Klingon will not dishonour himself.
But the very fact that Klingons have disruptors, means that they will use them.  Weapons are not ornaments or decorations.  You don't carry a weapon unless you are prepared to use it.  If your Jem'Hadar enemy is blasting away with his own disruptor then you probably won't survive to get close enough with a blade.  Equally, if he is using a blade himself, then you are more likely to go for the hand to hand combat option.
Pick the appropriate weapon for the situation you find yourself in.  A warrior who runs at a horde of enemies all blasting away with energy weapons is a fool, not a hero - and as Kahless said, "The wind does not respect a fool"

[tilk]

Hi nice to be back. still busy creating other film.

anyhoo. I spose this is an old conversation, but one I love to have.
1) to a Klingon there is no greater honor than victory in battle? Some battles are not won brashly or desperately. But some are. remember, if you are indeed a superior being, trained in battle your whole life, your greatest goal is to be victorious in battle. I also dont think klingons code of honor is a direct print of human code of honor.

klingons do scheme, are well versed in the art of politics, underhanded tactics to gain the upper edge. dont you think? they also show little to no compassion for other specices. they will conquer. they do look for a fight . with anyone, anywhere.

I feel that worf, was an extreme klingon with a slightly twisted, ideal approach to klingon honor, where Kern, his brother, was truly battle hardned and experienced in the klingon way of life as a warrior.

I cannot remember a klingon withdrawing from a flight because it was too easy, the apponent not a match.

I do agree, that klingon culture has strict standards that all must abide by without exception(dependant upon your power and influence), that there is a code that klingons follow (dont fully understand code), but I would ask, when the battle has commenced, a klingon will do all that he must to ensure victory; taking into account that a klingon will withdraw and regroup if it is advantagous to do so. not because the battle will be too easy to win.

I do believe that if a klingon was faced with a opponent with disruptors, he would indeed use any an all weapons at his disposal to acheive victory.

HOWEVER, Klingons are warriors( as previously stated) they crave to fight. I would then say, that it would not be strange for a klingon to desire a greater victory (in their eyes) to up the anty and attack greater numbers with fewer weapons, due to the fact that it has attached with it, greater glory, and possibly song.

Because the second most revered thing in the empire is the drinking of bloodwine and the telling of great tales of fool hardie battles that spelt certain death.

what do you all think? 

[Klythe]

I feel that worf, was an extreme klingon with a slightly twisted, ideal approach to klingon honor, where Kern, his brother, was truly battle hardned and experienced in the klingon way of life as a warrior.

    I my arrogant judgement, Kurn was no better than his brother.  Kurn portrayed every human stereotype Klingons have about Klingons and never developed an identity of his own.   I dislike Martoq, but at least Martoq is Martoq.  Kurn was the cardboard klingon to show us how much Worf had grown because of being surrounded by hyoomins.  He disgusts me almost as much as Be'lanna did when she feared and hated her Klingon side.   She eventually came to understand her klingon side.  Kurn never grew, so had to die and be reborn as someone else.

I cannot remember a klingon withdrawing from a flight because it was too easy, the apponent not a match. 

    Why would they withdraw?   Even if there is no glory, there is duty.  Even if you are assigned duties that offer little to no chance for glory, failure to heed that duty is still fatal for your career and probably your life as well.  A Klingon faced with an opponent unworthy of their prowess with exaggerated aggressiveness in order to find a way to make the victory more glorious.
The warrior would be more likely to make careless attacks against an opponent estimated as less than worthy of respect and caution than one as wiley as Terrans or Romulans.

I do agree, that klingon culture has strict standards that all must abide by without exception(dependant upon your power and influence), that there is a code that klingons follow (dont fully understand code), but I would ask, when the battle has commenced, a klingon will do all that he must to ensure victory; taking into account that a klingon will withdraw and regroup if it is advantagous to do so. not because the battle will be too easy to win.

I do believe that if a klingon was faced with a opponent with disruptors, he would indeed use any an all weapons at his disposal to acheive victory.

     I don't believe these 'warrior virtues' are codified or even fully understood on a conscious level by starship crews, much less the general population.  I imagine most of those who would act this way would simply explain this behavious as the voices of thier blood.

HOWEVER, Klingons are warriors( as previously stated) they crave to fight. I would then say, that it would not be strange for a klingon to desire a greater victory (in their eyes) to up the anty and attack greater numbers with fewer weapons, due to the fact that it has attached with it, greater glory, and possibly song.

Because the second most revered thing in the empire is the drinking of bloodwine and the telling of great tales of fool hardie battles that spelt certain death.

    What would you say was the first?

[Kehlan]

[    What would you say was the first?

I would imagine that before you can drink bloodwine and boast about the battle you have to actually fight the battle - and more importantly - survive it.  (unless of course, the drinking is being done in Sto-Vo-Kor, in which case the surviving bit is probably unnecessary)
 


Kehlan

[IKM_Sogha_qDar]

WOW, I could never hope to add to those impressive coments, to which all of them I agree with.

Tiik, I applaude your enthusiasim, I wish you lived out here where I do, we would be unstopable.
Klythe, I also Salute you, your insight was to say the least thought provoking as well as stirring,
Kehlan, You your  words also stirred my blood, I thank you for you being practical, I agree with you all, when being pursued by either jem'Hadar or romuluS, or even dishonorable terrans shooting energy weapons, It makes no sense to suddenly charge them with only a blade in your hand.

(Since the scenario first cited, would only be happening if your position was overrun, or you were performing Recon and your cover was blown and had to flee to report to your superiors, Or were ordered to keep the enemy off balanced by performing hit-and-run-tatics and something went wrong)

To All of you I say majQa.

q' Dar tai-vesQa Sogh'a'