Insults

[Warrior_of_Kahless]

Can someone tell me a good way to insult a Female without taking it too overbord? Thanks


WoK

[Kesvirit]

As with any insult, yours would be based on whatever characteristic you find offensive or inadequate. If the nature of your insult hinges on her being female, I strongly suggest you keep it off the boards.

(And when a Klingon strongly suggests you do something...)

-=- Kesvirit

[Warrior_of_Kahless]

I wasnt intending to put it n the board...and I really wasnt trying to get realy bad insults, only funny ones. Maybe my curiosity got the best of me on this one. My appologies.


WoK

[ngabwI]

No need for apologies at this juncture. I think you're just misunderstanding Kesv's warning.

She was asking, what, specifically, do you want to insult about this person (who just happens to be a woman)? Pick what you want to target, and insult that.

Kesvirit was warning you that insulting someone solely on the basis of one chromosome (XX vs XY) is not terribly diplomatic, and would probably result in an equally undiplomatic response.

But to address the (apparent) real meaning of your question, no, AFAIK, there is no Klingon equivalent of "b***h".

Or did I misinterpret something?

HovpoH 703339.3

[Kesvirit]

Very well said, ngabwI'. That was indeed my message. *sigh* Sometimes in my attepmts to be brief and to the point I end up missing my mark altogether.

::Mutters something about needing more sleep and stumbles off::

-=- Kesv

[qoSagh]

Based on the artistic form that curse warefare takes among Klingon, I would thinnk that mere gender was far too generic for a Klingon to use as the basis for an insult. The few Klingon curses Okrand gave us are not translated, so I can only guess at this, but I don't think there would be a translation for that word, simpy because it would allow a curse to be too simple and not at all crafted well.

Such words are often shortened versions of words or sayings that allow us to state concepts quickly. I do not think such a trait would be desirable except in battle where silence may be of value. Much like uttering a quick curse when you bang your thumb with a hammer, no real subject other than the entire situation is implied. I can see a short form curse being used there. With a living breathing subject, I think the long form would always be preferable.

[Warrior_of_Kahless]

Oh, i missunderstood...again. The person who i was meanign to insult is a female who disshonored me, and herself by lieing and cheeting like a Ferangi....like I said...nothing too harsh...(Although i find nothing too harsh to actualy be said to her.)

[KAllen]

Tell her that one of her parental units is a Romulan and the other is a Ferengi, or worse, a tribble.  

There is a curse warfare thread, you could pick some up there as well.

[Kesvirit]

quoth qoSagh: Based on the artistic form that curse warefare takes among Klingon, I would thinnk that mere gender was far too generic for a Klingon to use as the basis for an insult.

Indeed. But WoK had not mentioned curse warfare in his initial post, only the much broader field of insults. Curse warfare is an entirely different animal from mere insulting. According to the unspoken rules of the curse warfare game, the recipient is not to take the insults and curses personally. Whereas the kind of insult WoK asked for is intended to be taken personally, seriously, and to do damage.

quoth Warrior of Kahless: The person who i was meanign to insult is a female who disshonored me, and herself by lieing and cheeting like a Ferangi.

Then you would want to base your insult on her lying and cheating and perhaps her resulting loss of honor, not on her gender.  KAllen's advice of using an insult from the curse warfare thread is to be taken, I recommend that you tailor it to the specifics of the offense(s) committed.

quoth KAllen: Tell her that one of her parental units is a Romulan and the other is a Ferengi, or worse, a tribble.

Ferengi and Romulans would not make for an effective insult unless WoK could make a parallel to some particular incident involving them. Neither race is inherently dishonorable, but adhere to different standards of honor than we do.  

Tribbles, however, are just {yIHIy}.*

-=- Kesvirit


*{yIH} is the word for "tribble", and tribbly things are yicky.

[El Payaso Malo]

The Klingon words that are specifically used to insult someone are extremely telling of the Klingon mindset when broken apart. Earth curses tend to be sexual or scatological in nature. Klingon words are very different. I will give examples below.

toDSaH from toD ("save, rescue") and SaH ("be concerned with"). This implies that the recipient is always thinking about being rescued and cannot solve her own problems.
petaQ from pe- (indicates a command for more than one) and taQ ("be weird"). This implies a break of orthodoxy in a culture obsessed with tradition.
yIntagh - this one is interesting because it has a non offensive meaning as well: life support. This implies that one is dependant on the support of others to function, a seriously un-Klingon trait to possess.
taHqeq - This is perhaps the strongest. It even ticked off Picard. It comes from taH ("continue") and qeq ("practice, prepare"). This implies procrastination; that the recipient always prepares for something but never actually does anything. In Klingon culture, it is stressed again and again that one of the most important (if not THE most important) attributes one can have is the ability and desire to take action, preferrably as soon as possible. One who lacks this quality will not last long within the Empire, and will be viewed with contempt.

One can even analyze general curses:
Qu'vatlh from Qu' ("tasks") and vatlh ("hundred"). This expresses stress at having too many things going on at once. This one is unique in that it has a euphemism: Hutvagh from Hut ("nine") and vagh ("five") (this is actually one of the many jokes Okrand worked into the language, as he disliked driving on congested Interstate 95).
QI'yaH - This one is the strongest of the general curses. It comes from QI' ("military") and yaH ("be taken away"). To have one's military taken away is an alarming prospect for most Klingons.

I have a more thorough examination of Klingon curses, how strong they are, what they mean and when to use them, but that document isn't safe for the boards (not that it is vulgar, per se, just the content is a little over what the forum will allow). I call it tIchwI' mu'qaDmey ("Insulter's Curse Words"), and I can send it to whoever requests it. I made it for personal use, so to aid in proper cursing. I based it on what I have read by Okrand, my viewing of Star Trek and a document made by Voragh, who went into major detail on everything that seemed somewhat disparaging ever uttered in Star Trek by a Klingon. A very good read. My document is more to the point and limited to words in works by Okrand, and organized in a chart, because I made it for personal use. While I derived it from Voragh's, mine has noticeable differences and is from my interpretation. So while I owe Voragh some warnog for his inspirational work, I feel I contributed, as well.

I hope this helps someone.
pe'vIl mu'qaDmey tIbach
("Curse well!")

[ter'eS]

I'd just like to point out that all your etymologies are entirely your own invention and total speculation. I don't recall how accurate your evaluations of degrees of insult are related to what's actually said in canon, but I suspect not very.

[El Payaso Malo]

I'd just like to point out that all your etymologies are entirely your own invention and total speculation. I don't recall how accurate your evaluations of degrees of insult are related to what's actually said in canon, but I suspect not very.

Oh, I don't dispute that at all. If I in any way implied that I was an expert or authority on the subject, I apologize. The only reason I break words apart for analysis as much as I do is because Okrand himself does it in his books. However, he states plainly that doesn't work with all words. As for usage, all I have is context within Star Trek itself, since Dr. Okrand doesn't give much context at all for curse words. After all, a good portion of all research is, at its heart, speculation.

[qurgh_]

The start of Conversational Klingon has some examples of some curses and in which kinds of situations they should be used.

[El Payaso Malo]

The start of Conversational Klingon has some examples of some curses and in which kinds of situations they should be used.

I forgot about that! It has been a while since I've listened to it.

[QoghtlhIH'u']

I think the 95 Hutvagh is correct, I read this somewhere else. But the word has as such no meaning in the Klingon world, assuming they do not have the same congested Interstate 95 on their planet.

[El Payaso Malo]

I think the 95 Hutvagh is correct, I read this somewhere else. But the word has as such no meaning in the Klingon world, assuming they do not have the same congested Interstate 95 on their planet.

Very true. An in-world etymology for this one would most likely be very different, indeed.