Greetings and Identification other than nuqneH'

[tilk]

Could some of the elders, or senior scribes, please suggest other greatings and farewells in klingon.
that would be nice.
 

[Kesvirit]

This comes from Betty Bigelow of the KDC: {qalegh}, "I see you."
I much prefer it to the more widespread {nuqneH!}, or "What do you want?" {nuqneH} seems unnecessarily rude and intrusive, and inappropriate for greeting  strangers or superiors in a military or social context.

In contrast, {qalegh} is a more neutral way of greeting someone. It acknowledges the person one is greeting without issuing a challenge and is much more versatile; the speaker's inflection conveys the emotional tone of the greeting.


As for other farewells, I prefer the old standby "Survive and succeed." Its inclusion of survival indicates a degree of concern for the person leaving, even if the concern is a selfish one and the speaker has ulterior motives for wanting the other person alive.

taH -- survive (v)
succeed -- Qap (v)
For brevity's sake I would use the imperative form.

When leaving one person:
"You (singular) survive!" and "You (singular) succeed!"
yItaH 'ej yIQap!

When leaving a group:
"You (plural) succeed!" and "You (plural) succeed!"
petaH 'ej peQap!

Someone with more skill than I may be able to give you a more elegant way of expressing this.
Caveat: be careful in pronouncing {petaH}. It sounds very similar to {petaQ}, which is considered an insult to many Klingons.

-=- Kesvirit

[qoSagh]

I have always had a problem with nuqneH as a greeting because it is one sided. I think this may be the same for qalegh, in that it would most likely be spoken by the one being approached, not by the one doing the approahing.

I thin perhaps a translation of "I am here" might be appropriate. Think of comming into someones place and declaring that you are there, they could reply either I see you, or what do you want?. This may be the closest to hello that a Klingon gets. While not exactly pleasantries, such an exchange does imply a certain openess.

Most of the greetings I have heard always seem to me like they are part two missing a part one. Which causes a troublesome misuse for native english speakers. I have seen letters that have been started with nuqneH, then procedes to go on with the body of the text. nuqneH is a question not a statement and as such would require an answer. Although regardless of the answer I still think that starting corespondence with a question is not quite propper.

[SoplaHtaHwI']

I have always had a problem with nuqneH as a greeting because it is one sided. I think this may be the same for qalegh, in that it would most likely be spoken by the one being approached, not by the one doing the approahing.

If a Klingon greets at all, {qalegh} is an acceptable greeting.
I prefer merely stating ones business.

Variations on {qalegh} are possible. {Kesvirit, qaleghneS} for instance, to say I am honored to see Kesvirit, when I do. This honor is not given to everyone, however.

I thin perhaps a translation of "I am here" might be appropriate. Think of comming into someones place and declaring that you are there, they could reply either I see you, or what do you want?. This may be the closest to hello that a Klingon gets. While not exactly pleasantries, such an exchange does imply a certain openess.

{naDev jIH} is possible, indeed. But again I dislike it. Simply state {nuqDaq oH  'Iw tlhutlh 'e'?} (Where's the bloodwine?) or indeed {qaHoHnIS} (I need to kill you) instead.

[qapIn]

In contrast, {qalegh} is a more neutral way of greeting someone. It acknowledges the person one is greeting without issuing a challenge and is much more versatile; the speaker's inflection conveys the emotional tone of the greeting.

I as the one arriving would answer with a resounding choleghba'! nuqneH!?
I, as a Klingon, would much prefer to greet strangers/superiors by stating my name and from where one could know me, rather than stating the obvious...  }}:-)

As for other farewells, I prefer the old standby "Survive and succeed." Its inclusion of survival indicates a degree of concern for the person leaving, even if the concern is a selfish one and the speaker has ulterior motives for wanting the other person alive.

taH -- survive (v)
succeed -- Qap (v)
For brevity's sake I would use the imperative form.

When leaving one person:
"You (singular) survive!" and "You (singular) succeed!"
yItaH 'ej yIQap!

When leaving a group:
"You (plural) succeed!" and "You (plural) succeed!"
petaH 'ej peQap!

Someone with more skill than I may be able to give you a more elegant way of expressing this.
Caveat: be careful in pronouncing {petaH}. It sounds very similar to {petaQ}, which is considered an insult to many Klingons.

-=- Kesvirit

Here again I presume not to be able to give my superior or indeed a stranger an order. I'd rather say bItaHjaj/bIQapjaj, wishing them to survive and/or be victorious.

[Klythe]

choleghba'! nuqneH!?

 
you/me-see-obviously!  What-want?
Of course you see me!  What do you want?

     Please always give translations.  Most of the people reading this forum do so casually.  They may not have a Klingon dictionary or it might not be with-in paw's reach.   

[qapIn]

choleghba'! nuqneH!?

 
you/me-see-obviously!  What-want?
Of course you see me!  What do you want?

     Please always give translations.  Most of the people reading this forum do so casually.  They may not have a Klingon dictionary or it might not be with-in paw's reach.   

Actually, I didn't have my dictionary handy and I had a very hard time remembering the you/me prefix...
But I offended that rule again...
*slaps self*

[qapIn]

Here again I presume not to be able to give my superior or indeed a stranger an order. I'd rather say bItaHjaj/bIQapjaj, wishing them to survive and/or be victorious.

ofcourse:
bI- = you
-jaj wish. "may"

[ter'eS]

How about something like cholegh'a' you/me-see-? "Do you see me?" for the one coming up and initiating the conversation.   This could encompass all sorts of nuances: I don't want to surprise you; do you acknowledge me; should I approach closer, etc.

The one being approached could reply qaleghba'. nuqneH you/I-see-obviously. what-want  "Of course I see you. What do you want?" 

What I like about this exchange is that it doesn't get into any wimpy Human politeness, but draws attention to the approacher, and then the responder gets to use nuqneH in an appropriate way.

-- ter'eS

[qoSagh]

At the risk of digressing, I will relate a bit I heard about (ancient) Scottish customs. Nowadays, when in Highland dress, it is common the wear a small knife in one's right sock. I was told that this weapon is actually not concealed as it might appear, but that this is a sign of safety and non-threatening status. The knife is usually carried concealed in the folds of a great kilt, and taken out and worn openly in the sock, to let someone know that you don't plan on sneaking up and doing them harm.

because of this anticdote, I like the overall concept of the Do you see me?, Yes, of course I see you, now what do you want? exchange. It kind of lets the one you are approaching know you are not sneaking up on them. It shows that you are approaching not only with honor, but that you are accepting them as honorable.

[qapIn]

I personally think this still has too much Human in it. Maybe I'm mistaken though...

If one Klingon approaches another frontally, "Do you see me?" is asking the blatantly obvious. A simple "I'm he" would suffice for strangers or a "Have some bloodwine" or "How's the wife?" for a Klingon he/she knows.

Approaching from the back, or side would not require more than the name of the Klingon spoken to to attract attention, where then the above again applies once visual contact has been made.

How exactly this would work when one of the parties is blind, is another matter, but "do you see me?" is out of the question there too...

This sentence for me is more a play-question between children.

[Vulcan Lord]

For a Klingon to say 'hello' or greet someone in what humans believe to be social engagement, would not be looked upon veryy kindly among other Klinons. It signals weakness; softness. On Vulcan, we say 'live long and prosper' as a sign of respect. nuqneH may just be their way of social engagement.

[qoSagh]

Live Long and Prosper is generally used at the end of a conversation, as it is expressing a wish for the other's future, not their present. Sadly the primary reason we are debating the use of greetings, is that even with my limited knowledge of tlhIngan Hol, I can recognize that there are too many people who never got past that page in the beginning of the Klingon Dictionary, where it said nuqneH was as close as Klingons come to a greeting. Even thought it lists the translation, many in fandom take it to me "Hello, How are you? How's your Mum? Like some pie and chips, then?"

[Abbot Nej vIt]

I would think it unlikely that ALL Klingons would use the same greeting or farewell, so much as that there might be a cultural idealism to how such greetings and farewells might be used... Also, it can not be over emphasized, that there could be different types of greetings for different types of encounters, for instance I might greet my mate in a very different manor than I would the Military Commander of my Unit, the way in which I might greet an Honored guest in my Home, from that of a potential business contact and so on... In the Audio Cassette, Conversational Klingon, which is where the term nuqneH originated, the particular example that Dr. Okrand was offering, was that of a Klingon Shopkeeper addressing a Human tourist... Thus nuqneH (What do you want), seems pretty appropriate...

I think that the original idea that Dr. Okrand was addressing with the use of nuqneH, is that it is direct... As opposed to filling the encounter with inconsequential banter before finally getting around to the point of the interaction... With this in mind, it occurs to me that we could be talking around our proverbial ridges here, and that almost any of the offerings mentioned so far could likely be useful in the proper context...

For a Klingon to say 'hello' or greet someone in what humans believe to be social engagement, would not be looked upon veryy kindly among other Klinons. It signals weakness; softness. On Vulcan, we say 'live long and prosper' as a sign of respect. nuqneH may just be their way of social engagement.

I am not sure that it would be a matter of what would be taken *Kindly* as you put it, so much as a matter of what was succinct and meaningful... Not to mention appropriate to the situation...

 

[Vulcan Lord]

I would just like to point out (for all those who may be un-aware) that to ask someone to state one's business, is very different from saying 'hello' or socialising in the human way. And I would also like to say that it is not uncommon for a Vulcan to greet someone by saying 'Live long and prosper' aswell as making a sign of farewell to the person. The hand symbol does change though.

[Abbot Nej vIt]

I would just like to point out (for all those who may be un-aware) that to ask someone to state one's business, is very different from saying 'hello' or socialising in the human way.

I guess perhaps I am not understanding this point? I agree that they are different, just not sure of why you are pointing it out?

And I would also like to say that it is not uncommon for a Vulcan to greet someone by saying 'Live long and prosper' aswell as making a sign of farewell to the person. The hand symbol does change though.

You Know I am finally getting to watch ST: ENT for the First time from beginning to end, (Obviously we have never had more of an opportunity to observe the Vulkansu in Trek), and I have noticed among other things the lack of Vulkansu using the traditional Hand gestures associated with the similarly traditional Greeting and Farewell?

Any thoughts on this?

[Vulcan Lord]

Although we Vulcans are very organised and proper, we are quite lazy. If you will notice in ST: TOS, Spock usually slumps back on his chair in an approach of laziness. Hand gentures are applied to this nature. Although a Vulcan may usually tell what one is saying in Vulkansu without a hand gesture, for words like hello and good-bye, and various other opposites; you must apply the gesture rule. I, myself, have confused fellow Vulcans with my 'laziness'. And ST: ENT, does not really teach us about Vulcans very much. For a better interpretation on what I am saying, watch Amok Time (TOS), This Side of Paradise (TOS), and Unification part I & II (TNG). Star Trek III also has some knowledge on the subject.

[Kash]

I much prefer it to the more widespread {nuqneH!}, or "What do you want?" {nuqneH} seems unnecessarily rude and intrusive, and inappropriate for greeting  strangers or superiors in a military or social context.

That's exactly why I like {nuqneH!} as a greeting. The point of such a greeting is very one-sided; the inferior obviously has approached a superior or equal and non-verbally asked for his time. {nuqneH!} very appropriately asks them to state their business; no greeting is needed on the inferior's part. It streamlines conversation.

Klingons aren't the type to have codified greetings. It seems much more efficient to simply either state one's direct business, or greet one according to the occasion. At a celebration, an offering of food or drink might suffice; on board a vessel, a simple statement of your business should suffice as well.

[IKM_Sogha_qDar]

[Edit -- Merged with existing thread on topic -=- Kesvirit]

It is said that there are no other words of greeting in tlhIngan, however it makes no sence to me to walk up to some one and say " nuqneH' " because he may have wanted nothing.

Obviously, If you walk up to me and you intend to start a conversation, you're not going to spontaneously ask me what I want unless your a jabwI' (a waiter) and you plan on fething it. If anything, I'll ask what it is that you want of me.

If, in a sitsuation  where rank or custom or a desire not to interrupt, dictates that the Klingon cannot simply start speaking, he waits for an oppertunity. When he is noticed, the party he's addressing typically responds with " nuqneH?" (What do YOU want?).

Normally, Klingons would acknowledge  someone they're introduced to with a simple nod, if that much. If you absolutly must be given something to say which is more eloquently acknowledges an individual, you might use some of the folling:

qaleghneS': cal-eghk-neSH : I am honored to see you.
qaleghqa' neS; cal-eghk-ka-neSH : I am honored to see you, again.
qaqItlhIneS: KakkIK-neSH : I am honored to meet you, (for the  first time).
qalegh 'oH QaQ'e' : cal-eghk- ohk- KAKK-eh : It is good to see you .
qaleghqa' 'oH QaQ ' e ' :  cal-eghkka-ohk-KAKH-eh : It is good to see you again.

or there is another way  of Introducing yourself, when you walk up to a higher ranking officer, just shout or say " qaH!! " which means " Sir" and If given orders you respond Hija qaH!


q' Dar tai-vesQa Sogh'a'
Marine Contingent DevwI'
IKRV Hurgh Hap
Kri'stak Region
Ring of Fire Fleet
http://home.earthlink.net/~ikrvhurghhap/crew/qdar.htm

[qoSagh]

I don't think anyone has ever said that nuq neH was anything other than direct. I also would say that few if any could argue that Klingons were not direct in their confrontations. But the fact still remains the nuq neH is still not the only greeting and certainly not the appropriate greeting for all situations. Unless we have been missing a cultural aspect all along. Perhaps Klingon conversations are stated by the one being approached and not by the one approaching. If this is so, then "what do you want" sensible, as does "I see you".

[Qunchuy]

But the fact still remains the nuq neH is still not the only greeting...

Marc Okrand contradicts this so-called fact, stating explicitly in a Klingon language instructional audiotape that "there is only one" greeting: nuqneH

[Kesvirit]

Must be from an outdated tape. As you can see from this thread, this is no longer the case. People seek alternatives to more accurately express themselves and address the nuances of a given situation.

-=- Kesvirit

[qarSuv]

I am just a beginner, so I await corrections if deemed necessary.

How about qavan/Savan <I salute you (sing./plural)> for more formal situations and:

- naDev jIH(, qaH/joHwI') <I am here(, sir/my lord)>, spoken by one previously summoned;
- qajatlh'e' vIneH <I want to speak to you>?
 

[SoplaHtaHwI']

I am just a beginner, so I await corrections if deemed necessary.

How about qavan/Savan <I salute you (sing./plural)> for more formal situations and:

- naDev jIH(, qaH/joHwI') <I am here(, sir/my lord)>, spoken by one previously summoned;
- qajatlh'e' vIneH <I want to speak to you>?

I would say they're acceptable.
{naDev jIH}, either with or without the {qaH}/{joHwI'} is too obvious for my taste. I would say {jISuH} "I am ready" or {chora'} "you command me"/"your command...".

{qajatlh 'e' vIneH} I would recast to {qajatlhnIS} "I need to speak to/with you". Again here, I would rather state my business if it is not too personal.