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Author Topic: Females & the military  (Read 3829 times)
SoplaHtaHwI'
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« on: 03 13, 2005, 03:30: PM »

I was looking into the Kharsid/Karsid (only the KIDC forums have the h?) and found the following, unrelated bit on http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8....html#Klingons:
Quote
The only way a female can get into the Klingon Service is to have a sponsor (her hustband or lover) in rank. Then she can work her way up, but if he dies, so does she. Unless she is willing to be the booty of the next commander (sort of like the spoils to the victor). Another way is to have a protector; someone who is in a high place who is willing to be her sponsor.
And here I am confused... I was convinced males and females are equal until and onto death in the Klingon Empire...

-=sharpening mekleths in Europe =-
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qa'pIn [SoplaHtaHwI'] qI'meQ vIghro''a'
yuch betleH 'obe' la'quv
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Kesvirit
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« Reply #1 on: 03 13, 2005, 05:15: PM »

::glances at page, grunts, and tosses it in the direction of the disposal chute::

News to me. But the author(s?) have not exactly covered themselves in glory. The whole page is full of unconnected “facts” and entirely lacking in sources, explanations, or extrapolations to tie them together.

This scholar manqe also writes:
Quote
Klingons have dark olive skin, some even have topaz eyes. They are color blind. Black is black and red is black. White to them, looks like a yellow/green.
Have not all of us seen Klingons who do not possess dark olive skin?

Colorblindness is defined as an absence of or defect in the perception of colors, and the most common classification system is based on the perception of red, green, and blue (termed the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd color factors, respectively.)* If the visual perceptions as described above apply to all Klingons, they are not an absence or defect, but the norm for that population. A norm that does not follow that of the author’s own highly biased perceptions.

Someone’s enthocentrism screams out loud enough to be heard through the void. I would be hesitant to believe such a one if they told me that “space is cold”, let alone believe their assertions regarding highly complex gender relations between Klingons. I can only hope that the author’s skills and methodologies improve with time.

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I was convinced males and females are equal until and onto death in the Klingon Empire...
I still am. Though I think perhaps that equality lists toward “separate but equal”... ::snaps stylus and a few teeth:: Though there are some on these boards who will disagree with that, and perhaps even site the page you link to as “proof” of their beliefs.

-=- Kesvirit

*Tabert’s Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary, 1986, F.A. Davis Co.
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« Reply #2 on: 03 13, 2005, 07:05: PM »

While there may still be a patriarcy in the Klingon military, I think the status/relationship of both sexes is as close to equality as anything else in the empire. This is not done for any reason that would be understood by most off worlders. It is not done to be kind or nice, or in the spirit of fair play. The need for qualified warriors is well documented in an ever growing empire, such needs can be filled with high birthrates, but it still takes time for children to grow up. It comes dangerously close to khesterex to forbid an otherwise qualified warrior from service based on gender alone. High casualty rates would demand such a system.

As I have said before, I think that non military social structure s still mostly male dominated, but the Military has needs that the civilian world does not. This is why it is possible to have military equality and not cultural equality. To a Klingon these are not mutually exclusive, which to a human would be had to grasp. The idea that a race as violent and brutal (from the human POV) as the Klingons might actually be more progressive in some areas then thier prescious federation is just unthinkable for most.
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« Reply #3 on: 04 19, 2005, 09:25: PM »

SoplaHtaHwI',

I Have Not read this Info, But it is My Estimation That Any Klingon Powerfull Enough to Gain Position, by What Ever Means is Feared and Respected... Regardless of Gender...


Kesvirit,

I Think that it is Often Confusing When Humans Start Discussing Such Issues, because we really have Very Little to Go on but what is Presented by Business Oriented Companies like Paramount Who Can not Keep their Continuity Straight to Save their Lives... But We Have Seen Examples Such as Azetbur Becoming Chancellor after Gorkons' Death, That Suggest that Female Klingons CAN Occupy even the Highest Ranks of Military and Civilian Honor... We Have Seen Also Strange Paradoxes Like the Lursa and B'tor Variety, Where Seemingly a Woman is Nothing Without A Male Champion, And Even Grilka (SP?) in House of Quark was At a Loss for Protecting her Own Assets with out a Male to Sponser her... But these are Civilians So it is Hard to Say What the Actual Policies are for the Military, Since we Still Do Not Have A Bllody Klingon Show of Our Own... (Though That Could be a Good Thing, Considering Voyager and Enterprise...<Grin>...)

At the Very Least Within Fandom Klingons are Not Particulary Judged on Gender and that IS a very Good Thing... (Even So we see far more Male Club and Chapter Leaders than Female, But I have a Feeling that is as Much an Issue of Sci-Fi and Gaming being Marketed Mostly (At least in the Past), Towards Males)...

qoSagh,

You Make Some Good Points in Terms of Resource Management... Klingons are Not a Particularly Wastefull People, So it Would Make Sense to Utilize ALL Available Resources When Needed...

As A Model, Look at Both (In VERY General Terms), South American And Middle Eastern Patriarchies, Both Simultaneously Honor and Abuse Females Often Treating them as much like Property, As Valued Loved Members of the Family... But When Either of those Cultures Go to War, Women Often Play A Combat Role... (Perhaps not as Generals, But Certainly as Valued Assets)... So I Can From My Human Perspective at Least, Imagine A lot of Legitimacy to your Comments...
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