Request for Wedding Invite Translation

[Sulis]

We have some extreme Klingon/Trek fans coming to our wedding and thought that it would be neat gift to invite them to the wedding in Klingon.  Can any one help with the below??

Two lives, two hearts
joined together in friendship
united forever in love.

It is with joy that we,
StaciAnne KaeLeigh Visco
and
Geoffrey Howard Grove
invite you to share
in a celebration of love
as we exchange our marriage vows
on the 9th of July 2005
at 10 o'clock in the morning
First Congregational Church of Essex  

[Qunchuy]

Klingon doesn't have straightforward translations for phrasing such as "in friendship" or "with joy". I can help you rewrite the invitation in Klingon, but I can't really translate it without changing some of the wording.

cha' yIn, cha' tIq
muvchuq cha' jup
tay'chu' cha' bang

bel'a'maj wImaq
StaciAnne KaeLeigh Visco
Geoffrey Howard Grove
je

DIS cha'SaD vagh
jar Soch
jaj Hut
wa'maH vatlh rep
First Congregational Church of Essex-Daq
parmaq lopmaj yItIv je tlhIH
tlhogh 'Ipmeymaj DItamtaHvIS

Literally translated back into English:

two lives, two hearts
two friends join each other
two beloveds are completely together

we
StaciAnne KaeLeigh Visco and
Geoffrey Howard Grove
proclaim our great pleasure

year 2005
month 7
day 9
ten hundred hours
at First Congregational Church of Essex
you also all join our ParMach celebration
while we are exchanging our marriage oaths

What do you think?
 

[ngabwI]

Hello, Sulis! And welcome to the Forums! My name is ngabwI', and normally I handle the language posts 'round these parts, but this time, somebody beat me to it.

Fortunately, I happen to know that somebody. He is a Klingonist of greater skill than I, one I happily yield to. }}: )

(Qunchuy: I had no idea you hung out here! Long time, no hear! How's it been, man?)

Qunchuy is one of the best out there. He has offered an excellent suggestion, very workable, which strikes a balance between intended meaning and encodability. I would go with his work.

But this is your day, your decision. If this isn't going to work for you, repost, and I will see what I can do, though I can virtually guarantee that it will fall short of Qunchuy's offering.

Keep us posted...

HovpoH 702551.1

[qoSagh]

I am not the best at translations, but wouldn't the phrase

cha' yIn, cha' tIq

actually translate as two life, two heart (singular objects)?

I would have thought that two lives, two hearts would have been translated as

cha' yInmey, cha' tIqDu'

just my two talons worth.

[ngabwI]

I am not the best at translations, but wouldn't the phrase

cha' yIn, cha' tIq

actually translate as two life, two heart (singular objects)?

I would have thought that two lives, two hearts would have been translated as

cha' yInmey, cha' tIqDu'

Careful, qoSagh.

::thumbs amusement-park-style standup, depicting a Klingon Grammarian bearing all three language pips and a big "Former BG" stamped across his forehead, holding a sign that reads "You must be at least this good to correct Qunchuy"::

(Don't worry, I know Qunchuy, he's an easy-going guy. No harm done, I believe.)

::Steps up to lecture podium::Seriously, though, you've made a good point, and it deserves an answer:

In Klingon, the plural is never required, even if it would disambiguate the sentence. (In actual practice, though, plurals are often inserted where necessary to clear things up.)

Qunchuy likely left off the {-mey} and {-Du'} because with the {cha'} "two", the nouns are unambiguously plural, and so the suffixes would simply be redundant. (I base this supposition on the fact that this is exactly what I would have done.)

I hope that clears it up a little, and if it doesn't, post again, and we'll work through it together. }}: )

HovpoH 702559.3

[qoSagh]

I understand about plurals not always being required, but in the context of two becomming one, or more so two seperates becomming one whole it seems at least appropriate if not required.

As for correcting others, if Klingons did not do so, even at thier own peril, we would cease to be the Klingons we know and love. Such corrections are I think, the basis for curse warefare and most political debates within the empire. This would be to put it another way, verbal head butting.

[ngabwI]

I understand about plurals not always being required, but in the context of two becomming one, or more so two seperates becomming one whole it seems at least appropriate if not required.

Apologies. Your encoding of {cha' yIn, cha' tIq} as "Two life, two heart", your reference to encoding as "translation", and further explicitly marking {cha' yIn, cha' tIq} as "singular object", with these words indicating neither singular nouns nor objects of any verb, led me to the not-unreasonable, IMO, conclusion that you were confused about pluralization in Klingon. Sorry 'bout that.

But, in answer to your thought, I do not see any additional emphasis on plurality brought about by the use of the suffixes. It seems eclipsed by the {cha'}, so the suffixes are just superfluous.

As for correcting others, if Klingons did not do so, even at thier own peril, we would cease to be the Klingons we know and love. Such corrections are I think, the basis for curse warefare and most political debates within the empire. This would be to put it another way, verbal head butting.

Please mark in-character posts as such. I've never been terribly good at telling them apart.

Qunchuy did not post in-character. He used the same wording he's always used on the KLI list, where he is respected for his knowledge. He was one of the vocal models for the Klingon CD and one of the translators for Starfleet Academy #18 Klingon Language Edition. He is well-known in the {Hol} community. I guarantee you every word of that translation was carefully weighed. It is correct.

If this was indeed a stylistic criticism, I welcome it. But I was unable to find any indication of that intention in your post. For Curse Warfare, try the mu'qaD veS thread.

I am not suggesting the banishment of debate from this section. If the question about {cha' yIn, cha' tIq} was just that, a question regarding plurals, it would have been fine. It was the response that all that was understood. If all that is understood, why muddy the waters with something so small? There are things I would have done differently, too, but they are very minor, and given the target audience, the differences in meaning would have been lost, and therefore insignificant.

I see this section as being primarily for straight answers to questions of {Hol} grammar and vocabulary. Stylistic concerns are secondary. Too much "head butting" can cause a great deal of confusion for the person asking for the translation, and speaking from personal experience, it calls into question the validity of any answers received.

::To the Moderators: I don't feel I'm out of line here. But if I must be reigned back in, I prefer to take my licks publicly.::

HovpoH 702571.8

[Qunchuy]

I omitted the redundant plural suffixes for two reasons. First, they are simply redundant. Second, leaving them off satisfied a stylistic goal of parallelism in the first paragraph. Without them, the words are yIn, tIq, jup, and bang. With them, the words become yInmey, tIqDu', juppu'... In my view, the changing suffix distracts from the common cha' idea, and loses the implication that the lives and hearts and friends are all the same entity.

[Oh, and I was not involved in the Klingon Language Lab CD recordings. My home was too distant from Dragon Systems' studios to justify the trip to my family.]

[qoSagh]

I was not trying to post "in character" simply stating the somewhat obvious about Klingon debates, something these forums excel at. At for being reigned back in, I took no ofense at your reply, and hope mine didn't teribly offend either. I also agree that normally this thread would call for the straight answer to the straight question, My reply was more stating my opinion, that an attempt to correct.

There are many people who speak tlhIngan Hol better than me. My goal in giving a stylistic opinion was simply to learn as all debates teach, and to offer options to the original question. If we didn't do such, the questioner would be limited to the first person who was fast enough to answer. Imagine how dreadful that would be if that speed deamon were linguisticly wrong?  

[ngabwI]

Oh, and I was not involved in the Klingon Language Lab CD recordings. My home was too distant from Dragon Systems' studios to justify the trip to my family.

{Hagh qoHpu' neH, HeghtaHvIS SuvwI'pu'}
My mistake. I was misinformed.

And to qoSagh:
It appears I've erred, even though I didn't know it at the time.

I was defending an answer from someone I respect. In retrospect, the answer is good enough that it really didn't need my defense. It stood just fine all on its own. I was trying to get everyone to see that, and was perhaps a little too zealous in my proceedings. {jItlhIj} "I apologize".

HovpoH 702588.1