Klingon Convention / Summit

[qoSagh]

Having just received my latest copy of HolQed, and seeing the schedule for the annual meeting there, I had a thought. The KLI is able to hold a multi day event solely dedicated to the study of tlhIngan Hol (The Klingon Language). What if there were an event of similar design and length dedicated to all aspects of Klingon fandom?

No guest stars, little or no dealers room. Just a convention of Klingons, by Klingons and for Klingons. Now since this is just a fledgling idea, I haven't event begun to guess on details. I would assume that a Klingon Feast would have to be a feature. Sessions or Panels on fictional and non fictional topics. Space set aside for clubs to hve meetings. Various ceremonies could be held as needed. The possibilities are endless.

Now the main idea would be to make it open to all Klingon clubs and individuals.  Despite this, obviously someone would have to take the lead. Who that is or would be should probably be dictated by what the best location would be. While any of us could run an event in any location, it is far easier to run an invent in a nearby location. The event location should be easy for the majority of attendees to get to.

Just some random thoughts so far. Who else wants to chime in?

[Kesvirit]

Random thoughts and concerns (finally)

zan qoSagh's proposal sounds like an excellent idea and a logistical nightmare.  I like the idea of forgoing the star sesseions and dealers rooms that have otherwise strong and independent Klinfolk being herded around like livestock, being milked at each station.  A Klingon-event should be participatory, not passive.

An extention of this is keeping it an independent and fan-run production. This will be very difficult as you will be exploring unknown territory. The KLI, Creation, and the like can more easily stage events because they have Paraborg's blessing and already have an organizational structure in place.  Those who attempt to create their own are not only building from scratch but may find themselves in a legal quagmire.

The event location should be easy for the majority of attendees to get to.

Where would this be? How does one discover where the geographical clusters of Klinfolk are?  I am not a con-goer, but one who is tells me that most take place in Southern California or New England because these are the reigning national population centers. Regardless, most who are interested will be left out due to the time and expense of travel. I do not forsee a solution to this.

Having said that, in the spirit of making it open to all Klingon clubs and individuals, I think best not to hand over the event to an established club, ship, House, or other organization to organize and run.  Any managing committee would ideally represent a variety of interests and alliances.

In lieu of a dealers' room I would like to see a series of "how to" seminars. Experts in various areas of costuming, weaponry, cooking and the like could both show off their skills and pass on their hard-earned knowledge.  Students would pay fees with their advanced registration, allowing seminar leaders to buy supplies in bulk to keep costs down. Attendees would have something tangible to show for the afternoon/day/weekend, and a personalized souvenier to add to their costume or collection.

Anyone else?

-=- Kesvirit

[qoSagh]

HAving started out years ago by going to Creation conventions in New York City, I had always heard that NYC was the country'd biggest science fiction market. This market must have gone away somehow because there hasn't been a convention in NYC for some time. While I would think that Klingon population would likely mirror actual population somewhat, I know there are differences. There is quite alot of Klingon fandom in the mid-west, and not so much in the northeast. That would make the center of the country a likely starting point. The KLI always holds ther annual convention/meeting in PA, simply because that is where they are located.

I know it is more expensive to rent hotels in major cities than in outlying areas, but transportation is a major concern. If people can not get to your event, then they will not attend. That means being close to highways, airports, and even train stations or bus depots, if possible. This of course brings us back to major cities. I think also the final location should be near to whoever is the event organizer, that will lessen the logistical nightmare.

As for not letting any single club run things, I agree wholeheartedly. The fact of the matter is however that within a geographical area, one will likely only deal with a few clubs. So there will be the "locals" and everyone else. A convention committee is always a good idea, if it is manigable. But I think it should be made up of those who are interested regardless of affiliation, simply because limiting participation in a fledgling event such as this could be a problem.

As for stars and dealers rooms, they are not a bad thing. I simple thought they should be minimal because the stars will be expensive, and thus drive up the costs. While a dealers room would bring in money, it would also require renting more space, and attracting dealers to an unproven venue. I do agree that these can take away from the seminars, but I have also been to non-trek conventions where there are exclusive exhibit hours so people have time to see as much as possible.

As for Paraborg's blessing, well I wouldn't want that even if they offered. We must recognize that they WILL be present, and WILL be trying to catch people violating thier directives. That is another reason to not have a dealers room as such. That may however limit some of the How Too seminars. As for other seminar/panel topics, I would thing that the ideas from these forums would be a good place to start. Topic selection is far in the future, even assuming that this type of event gets off the ground.

So lets hear from everyone (or as many as possible) I would be especially interested in those who think this is a ba idea or unworkable and why they think so. That might lead to ironing out bugs before they start.

[Kesvirit]

qoSagh: We must recognize that they [Paraborg] WILL be present, and WILL be trying to catch people violating thier directives. That is another reason to not have a dealers room as such. That may however limit some of the How Too seminars.

In the alt.startrek.klingon thread  Paramount/Viacom has begun cracking down on Props, Cmdr Krell posted:

...Please note that although the news brief indicates it is only venders being targeted, I have heard from an attendee at Vulkon that they also targeted a fan wearing props on his costumes.

IMDB News of the day
Paramount May Seize Pirated Star Trek Stuff

A federal court in Cleveland granted Viacom's Paramount unit an order allowing it to seize bootleg "Star Trek" merchandise sold at sci-fi conventions in Atlanta, Cleveland, Dearborn MI, Las Vegas, Minneapolis, Orlando, Pasadena CA, Tampa, and Tucson. The suit is aimed at bootleggers who sell everything from counterfeit action figures representing the characters in the "Star Trek" TV series and movies to T-shirts and caps. The court order allows process servers acting on Paramount's behalf to seize merchandise without having to obtain a local order in each city where the items are being sold.

(See the above-linked thread for more discussion)

An unnamed Vulcon promoter purports to set the record straight about the Cleveland con:

The rumors of them seizing props from patrons was totally unfounded, as the one patron who lost a few props, had them for sale at a vendors booth (where he was hired to help out at for the weekend). Paramount only seized the props because they were out FOR SALE at that vendors booth. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Paramount will be confiscating anything a Fan is wearing at any convention, as long as that item is not offered for sale.

I have no idea how to evade the Paraborg legal fleet. Numerous online searches have yielded only news stories such as those above. I have been unable to find any central repository of relevant court decisions or a site run by some corageous soul who keeps abreast of The Rules According To Paraborg (Such As They Are This Week). If anyone can point me towards the knowledge I seek, contact me at  "kesvirit at klingon dot org".

qoSagh: There is quite alot of Klingon fandom in the mid-west, and not so much in the northeast."

Why is this? More often than not, those in flyover country are ignored.

qoSagh:As for not letting any single club run things, I agree wholeheartedly. The fact of the matter is however that within a geographical area, one will likely only deal with a few clubs. So there will be the "locals" and everyone else.

My concern is that if one of the larger/dominant groups ends up running things they will do so to the exclusion of other Klinfolk. I would hate to see what was supposed to be a pan-Klingon meeting turn into a party/commercial for any particular acronym. And even those who cannot physically attend due to travel costs and time may be willing to assist in planning and organization via web, email, and phone.

-=- Kesvirit

[EnkiDu BaQ]

There is already an event like you are discribing it is called the Dover Peace Conference and is held in Dover Ohio each year in March.  It is a totally Klingon event and is an ongoing event.  I will try to get the contact infor and post it here for you.

[qoSagh]

Ahhh, but the Dover Peace Conference is not a totally Klingon event. At least it was not the year I went there. When I saw the komerex stella held aloft, with a romulan representing the green point and a federation science officer representing the blue point that was when I knew the concept of a period of rest between wars had been stretched a little thin. While I know that Joe started the conference as a Klingon event, I also know that he spent at least part of the time in his starfleet uniform. I will agree that Dover is a predominantly Klingon event, but it is also held in the middle of nowhere.

The location was picked because the event has it's roots in the annual meeting of a local ship. What I propose would hopefully not be dictated by anything other than Klingon Population density and ease of transportation. Even the KLI conference has moved to be closer to an airport. Air travel being the most expensive option out there, but also the fastest in many cases this is somewhat of a requirement for a successful event. For me to reach Dover was an 8 hour road trip not counting the 2 hours the day before to reach the meeting point for the six of us that went out there. That is what I am trying to avoid making people do. Also New Philadelphia has nothing outside of the convention to offer other than a tour of the local wal-mart.

As for evading Paraborg, I have no doubt that they will not stoop down to riping the headpiece of of any individual fans, but I can see them sitting in on a how too lecture to try and catch people offering to sell each other battle armor, or disruptors. This could make it hard to attract speakers to that part of the event. Also if the rumors I have heard are true about an official Klingon club having licensed the komerex stella and the name "The Klingon Empire" then everything from fan tables to panel discussions could be hard to populate. That is another reason to have little or no dealers room, I would estimate that 75-90% of the Klingon items out there are "unofficial" and as such would be subject to similar siezure orders.

The idea of fostering such an open event with particiants being able to discuss things freely without fear of the mountain comming down on them is what makes this such an interesting idea.

[Kesvirit]

qoSagh: When I saw the komerex stella held aloft, with a romulan representing the green point and a federation science officer representing the blue point ...

Such things make my livers flip and cause me mourn for the future of our once proud Empire.

Zan qoSagh, as the originator with extensive con experience, you hold the staff in bringing this event to fruition. The when, where, and how are all intermingled. How do you propose to sort them out so that each may be addressed and solved?

As regards Dover being held in a remote location because it began as a meeting for a local ship, where do you propose this Summit be held?  How does one determine the locus of Klindom in the Midwest (or the nearest city of size close to it)?

I suggest contacting other ships' and houses' communications officers to ask that they include a notice and contact information about the proto-event in their next newsletter.
 
From this board you can start with the English listings in Tedra deArr's Klingon House Directory and the Klingon Line Registry Webring.

Another key hub of communications to Klinfolk in the heartland is the he Midwestern division (as far as I can tell -- their web presence lacks currently lacks the presence and strength needed for true glory) of KAG, The Cold Terror Fleet. And do not exclude KAG Kanada.  I suspect that many of its members are Midwest-adjacent.

You can also post recruitment notices to any and all Yahoo Klingon groups to which you belong/subscribe, and direct them to this thread http://klingon.org/iboard/index.php?act=ST...st=0&#entry1393 (beware wraparound!) or include an email address and ask those interested to contact you personally. Or both.

Two Oklahoma-based groups who may be of assistance are Muskogee Klingons and The Klingon Imperial Guard.

(Caveat: personal pages, especially fan-related ones, have an unfortunate tendency to be ill-maintained and short-lived.  But all these sites listed contact info at the time of capture.)
 
I have posted a notice to alt.startrek.klingon, and included the topic in a round of promotional posts made to the Usenet Star Trek newsgroups.

Does anyone else have any contact information for midwestern Klinfolk or ideas on how to find them, especially those who do not include the web in their Klingon pursuits?

-=- Kesvirit

[Kesvirit]

While searching for something unrelated I discovered a link to Empire Union, a Klingon convention formerly held annually in Detroit. I say "formerly" because there is little on the page but a banner graphic and a blurb saying "Welcome to 2004!  Shall we bring back Empire Union?   Just click below & let us know!"  

It is too late for 2004, but perhaps enough enthusiastic responses can give it new life and a new direction for 2005. The person to contact is jpaladin@sbcglobal.net.  A KAI site has an account of Empire Union's 2001 con.  Zan qoSagh, is this closer to what you had in mind?

-=- Kesvirit

[qoSagh]

Yes that is very similar to what I had in mind. I noticed that they have guest stars, and while I enjoy back stage stories as much as the next guy, they are the major expense in running a convention. I'm not against having guests, but I for one don't have the investment capital to pay for them, and I would guess that very few of us would.

Who knows, perhaps if this ever happens, and then keeps happening, guests could become a feature. But I still think the main thing has to be the Klingon comradship.

[Kesvirit]

I urge you to contact japaladin and outline your plan.  S/he may be willing to send the remaining Empire Union infrastructure, as well as its mailing lists,  your way.  Be prepared for spirited negotiations (keep your blades sheathed) over the name of your propsed event, the jettisoning of the stargazing sessions and merchants' rooms, and the recipient of any profits from the event.  You will have to make it clear from the onset that you are not trying to resuscitate Empire Union, but to found a new event.

I hope you will follow up on the links listed in the July 30 post as well. I would very much like to see this idea materialize.

-=- Kesvirit

[EnkiDu BaQ]

goSagh,

In an earlier post, you made mention of the new group The Klingon Empire that is liscenced.  I am part of that group and as for the licencing, The Klngon Empire is an umbrella for all groups to come under to use the license.  We do not wish to govern other groups we are only the umbrella.  We want all groups to benifit from the license.  

As for the Dover Peace Conference, I myself have not gone, but I do know that by living in Oklahoma, There are not that many of us here so anywhere a conference was held would be a long ttrek for us.

Lady Enkidu BaQ
Epetai House BaQ

[qoSagh]

My thought that the Mid West was the center of Klingon activity was simply because I have heard of more clubs there than anywhere else. I do however know that the Georgia/Florida area has a strong presence and so does California.

While I live in New England, there is not much Klingon activity arround here, although that is changing. There is a new KAG ship that just started near the Connecticut/Mass border. NEw York City used to have a large Klingon contingent but that has largely gone away since there are few convention in the area anymore.

I suppose the best way to come up with a location is to see where the interest comes from. If more people from Oklahoma are interested than anywhere else, that state becomes the logical choice to find a city in. Hotel prices are also a deciding factor. Some cities are very expensive to hold conventions in, New York being one of them. Many smaller cities are actually less expensive which is why so many convention get held in outlying suburbs or near the airports.

Like I've said before, transportation access is somewhat of an issue. I know that in Atlanta and Boston, one can take the subway directly from the airport to most hotels. When I went to Dover, my wife was dissapointed to find that the closest shopping mall was several towns away.

I have posted the same idea to several Yahoo groups, with very few replies. I will try some of the web link you have provided and see what comes up.

As for jetisoning parts of the convention, well I would lover there to be at least a small dealers room but see two problems with this, first not many dealers will travel to set up at a new convention that is untestesed teritory. Second at a fan run Klingon event you know who will be walking around trying to catch folks selling home made items and that could lead to trouble for dealers as well as the convention.

As for guest stars, like I said, leaving them out would be would reduce costs greatly. I don't see the start up capital being avalible to pay for guest stars. I don't really have any idea where any funding at all will come from. This is one fo the areas I have been looking for help in working out. I hadn;t even though of there being profits until it was mentioned here. I had assumed that if lucky the event would break even.

Also as for The Klingon Empire being just an umbrella and not a controling force. I honestly believe that few fans would want to grab control like this, but I also can see a large company like Viacom, wanting just that. And if they can chage a fee to say that we are Klingons or are from the Klingon Empire, I have no doubt that they will do so.

[EnkiDu BaQ]

Viacom may try, I have not heard of them doing so at this time.  As for conventions in Oklahome.  We do have one each year, Trek Expo, and it has been an ongoing success for many years.  It is hosted by a store here in Tulsa called Starbase 21 (www.starbase21ok.com) and they have been doing a bang up job with it.  

The fair grounds where it is held is close to the airport, and hotel accomidations are made with one of the biggest hotels here in town.  There are numorous hotels and motels within 1-6 miles of the Expo and the host hotel provides transportation to the Expo.

Also if you were to come here, I can promise you wife will have all the shopping she can handle with three malls here in Tulsa!

 

[Kash]

Is this idea still floating about as a possibility, or has it been scuttled?

[qoSagh]

I suppose it is always floating around. However, the enthusiasm was not there after a while. I think that something regional might well work, but often something regional lacks the multi club idea that would make this a true summit.

[Abbot Nej vIt]

Kash,

I would also point out that, although specifc at the moment to Chapter based competitions, the KSG has a lot of potential to become a multi-club event. In fact we have a fine "Feast" like meal/ awards ceremony on Saturday night, which we are open to having different groups participate in. Also Friday evenings, actually, tend to be light on competitions, and could be a great time for presentations, panals and so on.

maj! {Good}...

[Kash]

I've actually been meaning to get to KSG sometime, but I'm quite poor and have no transportation at this very moment. It's the same thing that kept me from the KLI's qep'a' a few years back; members on the mailing list offered to pay my way in, I just didn't have a way out there.

While KSG could very easily become a cross-club event (and I hope it does!), I'd still really like to see some sort of summit similar to the kind talked about here, simply for the purpose of letting "Klindom" see *everything* that's out there. I'm of a mind that since most Klingon clubs are free or very low-cost membership, and most of them do allow dual (and triple, and so on) memberships with other clubs, that such a summit would serve many purposes.

For example, it would allow the existing clubs and groups to meet with one another to assist in stabilizing Klingon fandom, as well as trading stories and traditions and ideas to make each group better than it was when it came. It could serve as a meeting place for members of Houses, clubs, fleets, and guilds that wouldn't normally be able to get together, since most groups like that meet at a bunch of "smaller" (in terms of Klingon population) events spread throughout the year. It would let new members of "Klindom" to see the Houses, clubs, and groups at work, for those that wish to join them. If not, new ones could be formed. It would be a great point of contact and advertisement for other such events, like the KSG or qep'a'. In short, I think this could be an amazing asset for the purposes of bringing Klingons from every club and every region together. When we stand together, we are made even stronger than we are apart.

[qoSagh]

Of course one of the reasons why any existing event would not really be the same as the original summit idea, is the focus. Think about a large corporate convention, while we could all agree to meet there, we would inevitably spend only a fraction of time on the summitt and the majority at the conventions, either together of in small groups. qep'a' is focused on language, and to a lesser extent on the KLI. The KSG, is focused on the competitions leading up to the Elite Unit Citation. Too much cross programing would hurt these events because it would take away from their original focus. That is why the idea was to get together when it wasn't some Admiral's birthday or the first local appearance of a favorite actor, and put on programing specifically about Klindom. To make it it's own thing and not hijack anyone else's event.

[Abbot Nej vIt]

Excellent points from both Kash and qoSagh...

I know that there are other "Feasts" out there besides the one in Daytona, (Put on each year by our sister chapter the Hup Hoch), and I think that I recall seeing some sort of "Networking" web site some time ago for different Klingon events.

Perhaps that might be another route towards getting a trully Klingon-centric summit happening? In other words those of us in different geographical locations promoting the idea in our own areas first.

With fewer and fewer Fan oriented conventions out there these days, (And those that are fan oriented are less and less Trek let alone Klingon focused), it strikes me that there is a lot of room to do this. In my limited experience in putting on KSG, no matter how much you try to remove the overhead costs by making it about fans and not about business, there are going to be expenses, and it is unlikely that they will be recouped by the relatively minimal attendances that can be expected early on.


So, as has been mentioned elsewhere, it will always come down to one or a few individuals willing to take the time and spend the money required to put an event on.

[qoSagh]

Cost is always going to be the biggest factor. If for no other reason than Star Up Capital. Even if attendance skyrockets, someone has to rent the Hotel, arrange for the catering and do the other logistical work. Then you have to get the fans to come, which will cost money on an individual level.

Sometimes a Profit can be a bad thing. My city started an event on New Years Eve in the Early 90's called First Night. Similar events go on all over the country, but I have heard that it started in Boston. We were told that there would be a financial loss for at least the first 3 years. That did not happen, the event paid for itself in year one. I think this gave a false sense of hope to the organizers, as the even only lasted about 3 years because it began to loose money. They brought it back in 1999 for the false millennium celebration, but it never really took hold again.

I would not want to see this happen to any fan event, let alone a Klingon event.

[Kash]

Perhaps we should spend some time gauging the reaction of the Klingon public at large; each asking within our own groups if there would be a desire to attend such an event, and if so, where would be most appropriate for them, etc. At least in this manner, we could estimate potential start-up costs, and plan accordingly. There's really nothing wrong with using smaller events to finance larger ones (unless your particular organization's rules strictly prohibit it), is there? If that's the case, smaller, more localized events (Feasts, Games, etc.) could be dropped into a larger, collective fund with which to attempt this.