Klingon Religious diversity, what makes a religion anyway

[Abbot Nej vIt]

You Know... This Brings up a Point Touched on By Mike Okuda in the Forward to TKD (The Klingon Dictionary)... He Mentions that Different Dialects are Spoken and Fall in and out of Favor, based on Who is Running the Empire at a Given Time, And This is Chalked up to Regional Variation... So This Same Sort of Regional Slant Could Effect the Outward Tone of a Given Klingon Ritual, While the Core Significance remains little Changed... (Allowing for Story Telling on a Local Scale, and thus Permissable Deviation from one Minor Detail or Another)...

[qoSagh]

I like the idea of regional differences, I also think that they could be differences between seperate Klingon religions. That has been discussed in other areas of the forums. The Empire is a big place, there is no reason to think that there is a single morphing Klingon religion.

 

[Abbot Nej vIt]

I like the idea of regional differences, I also think that they could be differences between seperate Klingon religions. That has been discussed in other areas of the forums. The Empire is a big place, there is no reason to think that there is a single morphing Klingon religion.

That would be my Contention as well... And It Would Be Logical to Think that there would be Some Form(s) of State Recognized Procedure/Ritual which may not be Religious at all... If There were more than One Religion within the Klingon Empire, Then it Follows that There are Klingons Who are Not Religious, but may Still wish To be Wed?

[qoSagh]

I suppose there would be secular Klingons out there, although I have not met any yet. Paraborg seems content to have all Klingons believe in something, if for no other reason than to show how "primative" religion is and how the mighty humans have transcended the need for god(s). Within fandom, I have seen many different representations of Klingon religion, all of them zealous to say the least. I have seen fans who never really worked anything out about a character's religion, but never one who makes a point of not being religious. That might be an interesting character to roleplay some time.

[Abbot Nej vIt]

Although we Come Dangerously Near to Going Off Topic here, I would Add that Even Within the Shows We have Seen a Level of "Faith" in a Religious Order or Set of Gods as Being Relatively Minor Compared to the "Spiritual" Guidelines that have been Infused within Klingon Culture... We Do Not See Klingons in the Shows Going to Mass, (As an Example), yet we See Worf Meditate... (Like he is a Great representation of what it means to be Klingon, But I Digress)... Gowron Did Not Go Around Citeing QeylIS (Kahless), Everytime He Made Political Decisions, Nor Have we Seen Much Seeking of Religious Guidance... (Though it may have been implied Vaguely, with Allowing Kahless II to Become Emporer as a Religious Figure Head)...

Anyway, as Far as "Religious" Ceremonies Go, it is Sometimes Difficult to Define the Difference Between Being Religious to a Principle, (Some Folks Read Each Day Religiously, But Rarely Read Religious Material)... And Being of A Dedicated a Religion... So Certain Ceremonies May in Fact be Observed as Traditional and Thus Performed Religiously without "Being" Religious or Requireing a Fundemental Believe by the Participants...

Now as has been Discussed Elsewhere, It is Interesting How in Being Nearly Oblivious to Continuity, The Powers that Are Paramount, Have Offered us Several Differing Concepts About Marriage, Worf wanted to Have Some Sort of Personal Ceremony of Commitment Between he and K'heyler after Mating... She was Highly Opposed to this Idea, seeing it as Out Moted Tradition, While Apparently it was Fine to Bed Dax (And Possibly Troi), without it... Is this a Matter of Circumstance? Is there a Distinction between the Required Rites of Mating and Consortship when Both Participants are of Klingon Blood? If So Why Did Dax Get a BIG Klingon Wedding? Or is it really a Matter of Preference, (Not Everyone Can Afford a BIG Klingon Wedding)? Which Could imply that there is not such a Great Emphasis on the Religious Nature of Klingon Weddings, but that it is a Matter of Personal Prference and Resources, Time available etc...?

Regardless, I Agree that I Have Not Seen Klingon Fans Voice with Conviction that their Persona is an Aethesist, However I Have Heard Plenty Recite the FASA Bit About "If there are Gods they Do Not Care, and Justice Belongs to the Strong", Implying at the least, a Certain Level Distancing between themselves From Being "Religious" Klingons... The Opperative Words Being "If there are Gods"...

[qapIn]

I suppose there would be secular Klingons out there, although I have not met any yet.

...but never one who makes a point of not being religious. That might be an interesting character to roleplay some time.

to what extent does acknowledging Kahless as the warrior to mold one's life after resemble a religion? Does that perhaps resemble for instance Jezus, or Buddha, for that matter?

I wouldn't consider having a set of ideals and a healthy regard for one's ancestors and the accompanying rituals to be a religion in itself...

[Klythe]

    If you ask me, I think it certainly is a religion in a broad sense, and would say even in less broad scences.  And when we are talking about an alien civilization, it think it's appropriate.  Webster's[url] says a religion is "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith".   That's not even the broadest sense since it does not include belief based habits as in "He showered religiously", which doesn't mean he is a member of a religious sect that has shower rituals, but rather he just believes that showering regularly is very important to him.

   Buddism is probably the best example, maybe confuciamism as well.  By all reports Buddha was just a man, a man who gained and shared so much wisdom thatafter his deathhe was taken to have divine status.  The moment he proffessed that he would return from the dead, he became quite clearly a religious figure.  If you accept that Kahless has power after death, or that following his teachings will affect what happens to you after death, then I'm not sure how you can argue that the many Klingons who have those beliefs do not a consitiute a religion.

  Anyway this is off topic enough, time for a split.