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Author Topic: All about klingonaase  (Read 58926 times)
weslipuqlod
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« on: 04 12, 2004, 10:14: PM »

Originally we had a thread that cataloged what was available regarding klingonaase Vocabulary.  Apparently it did not survive so let me start it once more.  If I recall correctly, my list was not complete and trust others will add to it appropriately.

federazhon - The United Federation of Planets
fedegonaase - UFP standard language
gagny - curse
g'dayt - curse
g'daya - curse
kaase - Hand
Kahlesste kaase - "Kahless' hand"
Kai - Hail, or "long live"
kai kassai - The same, emphasized. "Kai kassai, Klingon!"
khesterex - Literally, "the structure which dies"
khest - To screw up
khesterex thath - Screwed up situation
kherx - A screw-up
parkhest - curse
khest't - curse - apparently interchangeable with khest’n
khest'n - curse - apparently interchangeable with khest’t
kleon - Enemy, or opponent.  Equal to a Klingon
klin - That which is Klingon
Klingon - Klingon
Klinzhai - The Klingon homeworld
Klingonaase - The Klingon language
Komerex - Literally, "the structure which grows."
komerex Klingon - The Klingon Empire
komerex zha - See 'zha' below
kuve - Servitor; alternative translation is slave
kuvekhestat - Worthless slave(s)
kuveleta - Half-slave; an insult
kuvesa tokhesa – “I serve willingly."
tharkuve - Deaf slave, unable to overhear secret conferences
tharavul - Vulcan servitor, lobotomized to remove the Vulcan's telepathic powers. This is done voluntarily.
nal - Negating word
straave - Slave
straav' - Slave
tokhe straav' - Willing slave. Just about the worst insult one can call a Klingon.
tai - Worthy, honored
epetai-zana - Honored and exalted one
tai-kleon - Worthy opponent
teskas - Compliments, praise
teskas tal'tai-kleon - Compliments to a worthy opponent
tokhe - Willing
vird'dakaase - Disruptor
zan - Neutral title of respect; roughly equal to Mister
zha - Game
klin zha - The Klingon game (in several variations)
klin zha kinta - The Klingon game with living pieces
hum zha - The Human game, chess
rom zha - The Romulan game, latrunculo
komerex zha - The perpetual game -- life
zha riest'n - [It was a] pleasant game
sa tel'ren - Two out of three. One can't assume sa=2 and ren=3
humanai kuvest' - Either "human slave" or "slave of the humans."
tokhest' - From context, "if he is willing or not."
komerex tel khesterex - “That which does not grow shall die”

Honorifics:
tai - Has done nothing notable but conducts him/herself accordingly and deserves some respect.
vestai - Same as tai, yet having done at least one notable act
sutai - Has done several notable acts
zantai - High honor in personal acts as well as those of the lineage
epetai - Extreme honor - rarely used for anyone below Klingon middle age unless as an insult.
« Last Edit: 05 24, 2011, 08:03: PM by Klythe » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: 04 12, 2004, 11:40: PM »

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komerex tel khesterex - “That which does not grow shall die”
I thought it was komerex nel khesterex...
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« Reply #2 on: 04 13, 2004, 01:16: AM »

I have always seen it as nal komerex khesterex. I will have to dig through that old box of FASA stuff to look it up now.

Another word and I'm not sure of the spelling or source is Mortas, meaning death. In the northeast there was a large fan club called Mortas te Kaase, which was translated as "The Hand of Death". Although that club is as far as I know defunt now, it's members went on to form many other clubs including KLAW, the Karizan Empire and some branches of KAG (at least the Steel Fist here in the northeast). Since the qaptaQ was formed by two of us who were at the time Karizans, we can trace a lineage back to the Death's Hand, although nrither of us were members directly.

I recently used the phrase Mortas te Kaase in a ceremony not remembering until I wrote it out that it was the club/fleet name. I was using it in a more supernatural sense.
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« Reply #3 on: 04 16, 2004, 08:10: PM »

nal komerex khesterex --
What-is-not the-structure-that-grows, (is) the-structure-that-dies
What is not growing is dying

komerex tel khesterex
the-structure-that-grows or the-structure-that-dies
Grow or die

(I think this was a question rather than an imperative)

Mortas is clearly a word made up by the earlier speaker.  Ford always used khex, khest, or some other similar form to express the event of ceasing to live.

Quote
sa tel'ren - Two out of three. One can't assume sa=2 and ren=3

    But we might be able to assume they are both numbers, since tel serves the same gramatical function as 'or'.  

    I'll have to find that term for Jeffies Jockey...  agaan-Something....
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« Reply #4 on: 04 19, 2004, 01:48: PM »

I thought of another word which I now think may also have been a fan creation as opposed to a Ford creation. stella, which I think meant star or something similar. The only specific usage I can remember is the Imperial Trefoil (aka Klingon Symbol) being called the komerex stella. I always thought it translated as Imperial Star or Klingon Star but I don't ever remember seeing it translated formally.

 
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« Reply #5 on: 04 23, 2004, 05:10: AM »

"Klingonaase, The Other Klingon Language"? As if there are only two languages spoken throughout the entire Empire.

It's klingonaase. With a lowercase "k". {tlhIngan Hol} canonistas have a tendency toward apoplexy when a Romanized letter that should be capitalized is not and vice-versa. I try to observe these customs of capitalization because it keeps the workload of the medical staff to a manageable level. I ask that tlhIngan Hol enthusiasts do the same. Spell-flamers are to thought warriors what straav'i are to DaHar Masters, and I refuse to join their ranks. But this is one error I have seen repeated so often that it is making my fingers itch.

Where did the above glossary come from? It looks to be derived from an old BBS post known as "The Wiener Primeval List" (after author Stewart Wiener) that still materializes on the web from time to time.

One advantage tlhIngan Hol holds over klingonaase is its doctrine. Decisions regarding what is and is not Hol are implimented from the top down and followed by its users. In contrast, even amongst its adherents there is disagreements as to what counts as klingonaase and what doesn't. The obvious candidates for a definitive source are Ford's books The Final Reflection (TFR) and How Much for Just the Planet? (HMFJTP).

As to other sources, I have seen lists that have incorporated everything from the FASA material on through Alan Dean Foster' TAS novelizations to long-out-of-print zine fic. Some users hold that only the Ford material counts; other use klingonaase to refer to any Klingon words or phrases that aren't tlhIngan Hol. Thus coming up with missing words to the above list is a judgement call. Consider it to be a continuum of credibility along the lines of the canon wars.

In as much as non-canonbound Klinfolk can reach consensus on anything, legitimate "-aase", as klingonaase is abreviated in Dwellers in the Crucible, is anything from the Ford novels, the FASA RPG Klingon material (Ford is said to have had a hand in it, something I am coming to doubt), and from the novel Rules of Engagement (ROE) by Peter Moorewood. Other Klingon material in that vein from the Golden Age of Trek Lit is up for grabs; anything of post-Revision or fanfic origins is not. Material from Pawns and Symbols (PAS) is particularly problematic. Though it gives us a latter-day follow through of TFR, it is largely confined to three worlds and has its own vocabulary.

There is much more to klingonaase than words. The -aase is a very nuanced language compared to the Hol. "aase" literally means "tool"; by extention klingonaase means tool or devise of the klin. One has to learn it through observation in context. Rote will not do. Because there is no official regulating body to dictate definitions and use, the meanings of anything not explained by Krenn or Tagore have to be inferred from the context of the dailogue. Thus there is "room for interpretation" on the part of the reader, and I take exception to some of the definitions on weslipuqlod's list.

I distinguish between kuve (servitor) and straave/straav' (slave) as presented in TFR. The terms are not interchangable. Although both are low-ranking, servile positions, the role of kuve is an honorable one. Someone (a lot of someones) has to do the scut work, and if it is done well and conscientiously it is as valid and honorable a way to serve the Empire as pressing the firing controls to destroy an enemy warship. A straave is forced to serve as punishment for bad deeds in this life or "bad karma points" from another, is often in the unenviable position of being one of the captured/conquered, or has been reduced to serving others as a result of personal or family wrongdoings. This is one reason why tokhe straav' is such a grave insult. The term "aetheln" from PAS ("knowing your role and playing it well") factors heavily in the distinction.

I strongly advise anyone from limiting the title of zan to "Misters". I have yet to see evidence to support doing so.

Epetai-zana does indeed mean "honored and exalted one" as defined in the above list. But it is usually used as an insult against one who who thinks they are hot stuff when in actuality they suffer from an overinflated sense of self-importance. Use it to address anyone other than an admiral or head of a prominent House and prepare to be challenged/punished/executed. A tharkuve is not a randomly deaf slave, but one who has been made deaf by their owner so that the latter may speak freely of senitive matters in their presence.

Though vocabulary so far has been limited, look at root words and suffixes and how they are built upon to change the meaning of a word, not just the translation of it. Pay particular attention to khest-, -aase, and the words listed on weslipuqlod's list as "curse". There are more specifc words for these.

Kherx and khest have several similar and related meanings:
khest -- In addition "to screw up" this can mean to engage in sexual intercourse, or to be broken or dead (as in "screwed"). I infer khest'n to be an adverb and khest't to be its past tense form.
khesterex tath -- In addition to "screwed up situation", I got the impression that this could also mean to have one's back up against the wall, either literally or metaphorically
kherx -- appears to be slang for "accident" as well as "screw-up"
khex/kh'ex -- broken or inoperative (TFR); a corpse, a "stiff" (FASA)

Quote
I'll have to find that term for Jeffies Jockey... agaan-Something....
For zan Klythe, the Engineering Dept.:
Agaan Tubes -- superconducting tubes connected to warp engines  
agaantwikh -- someone who works in or with the Agaan Tubes; by extension one who works in small, tight spaces on board a ship -- "Jeffries jockey" (HMFJTP)
graf -- anti-curve rider (Klingon equivalent of warp drive)
sliketh -- nasty critters along the lines of huge sewer rats that live in the unmonitered areas of larger ships. Described as one-half to two meters long with large fangs and/or a spiked tail (HMFJTP)

-i -- plural suffix
-aase -- suffix meaning "tool" (vird'dakaasei literally means "shake-it-until-it-falls-apart tool")
hakkarl -- vanguard (a klin zha piece) (ROE)
komerex klin -- a vague/elusive quality that refers to how the klin is contained or manifests itself within an individual (ROE)
komerex stela -- the Imperial trefoil (TFR p.49 -- though qoSagh may be correct in that Ford may have picked it up from earlier fanon)
tazhat -- flier (a klin zha piece) (ROE)

I am sure I have missed things. I will add them to the thread as I come across them.

-=- Kesvirit
« Last Edit: 10 05, 2004, 03:41: AM by Kesvirit » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: 04 24, 2004, 08:45: PM »

It has been far too long since I read TFR, so I have forgotten most specific references. When I started in Klindom, komerex stela was a much used word. I had heard it so much before reading TFR that it was already in my vocabulary. I yield to your research on the specific source, I was thinking it was a fandom creation only because it was not on the posted list.

After seeing the last post with various sources listed and more or less grouped, I have revised an opinion I got after reading TKD. In the introduction where Okrand writes of different dialects, I had always thought that was a cover for fandom mispronunciations. After reading this thread and re-reading that section, I now wonder if it wasn't about klingonasse, as well as the other dialects/languages from other Klingon stories?

It seems to make a certain amount of sense that the official language of the Empire would also be the cannon language of Paramount. Also fitting that the ones who change the chancelor are the ones who slaughter the language the most or at least introduce new dialects.
 
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« Reply #7 on: 04 25, 2004, 02:11: AM »

klingonaase and tlhIngan Hol are too dissimilar to eachother to be dialects of the same language.  Clearly they are two seperate unrelated languages.  

    I also thought Okrand was talking about klingonaase too when I frist read the introduction...  But Okrand is a real linguist who knows that real languages are not static and tend to break as groups of speakers become more or less isolated from those outside the group and more connect with those inside the group.

   Actually, Okrand describes the dialects he was referring to in a later work "Klingon for the Galactic Traveller".  Mostly these are typical pronunciation and grammar changes and some unexpected usage to settle confusion between speakers of the Qotmagh dialect and the standard dialect.

 
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« Reply #8 on: 04 25, 2004, 09:37: AM »

Quote
qoSagh:
It has been far too long since I read TFR, so I have forgotten most specific references. When I started in Klindom, komerex stela was a much used word. I had heard it so much before reading TFR that it was already in my vocabulary. I yield to your research on the specific source, I was thinking it was a fandom creation only because it was not on the posted list.
I do not know when or where the term komerex stela originated. I first remember seeing it in TFR, though it may well have been a fanon term long before then.

I had also thought the term "Battle Surgeon" had its origins in TFR until I re-read Star Trek Log Seven, the novelization of the TAS episode "The Counter-Click Incident". It came out in 1976 and mentions as McCoy's counterpart a Surgeon-in-Battle Kattrun. (More on this at a later date in another thread). I don't know if the character or the occupation were featured in the original aired episode or whether Alan Dean Foster added them to expand the story.

I also don't know to what extent Ford was a Trek fan. To my knowledge it is the only franchise for which he has written, and all his other works have been original fiction and contributions to RPG modules. Regardless, any skilled writer will research their material, and TFR incorporates elements from varied Trek sources.

-=- Kesvirit
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« Reply #9 on: 04 26, 2004, 12:29: PM »

Hmmm, the term Battle Surgeon or Surgeon-in-Battle is/are very interesting. This because one of my characters that I Role Played in the Paintball games was a Klingon Surgeon. While the Human physicians would treat anyone, I would only treat Klingons and a few allies. I was often heard, standing over injured federation personnel, to say hipocrates was a human, his oath has no bearing on Klingon medicine.
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« Reply #10 on: 04 27, 2004, 04:23: AM »

Indeed. Euroterran-based systems of medicine are very different than those Klingon ones of which I am aware. I address this in a post-in-progress that I hope to have up in the near future. (So many posts-in-progress, so little time for research and composition, such a backlog...}}: (

While searching for something else I came across my list of FASA-created klingonaase definitions. Most are not part of my personal canon, but I present them here in the interests of completeness.

This FASA material was written specifically for a modular RPG and is more of a curiosity, known only amongst RPGers who were playing such things on paper and in person as opposed to on the net. Unless you are building an encyclopedic database on all things Klingon it is unlikely that you will come across it.

The writing for the maunuals is credited to Fantasimulations Associates (based on original material by John M. Ford), with additional writing by Donna Ippolito and Todd Huettel. Fantasimulation Associates consists of: Guy W. McLimore, Jr., Greg K. Poehlein, and David F. Tepool, who according to McLimore put in cameos in the final chapter of TFR.

Ford roomed and worked with McLimore, who then went on to become one of TPTB at FASA. McLimore writes: "When we discovered we were working on parallel projects, we couldn't resist a collaberation of sorts. Thus, the research on the Klingon Empire for his novel... also became the basis for much of the background included in our first edition of "The Klingons". ("FASA publication 2002A: The Klingons: Game Operation Manual" p. 77)

But Ford didn't have a direct hand in writing the FASA manuals, and I daresay it shows in the presentation. It looks to me like the FASA -aase that was not excerpted from TFR was made up to sound like like it. Though we are given definitions, we never see it used in context.

Hmph. When I was in school, we didn't get credit on on our vocabulary tests unless we could convincingly use the word in a sentence...

As with all sources, YMMV -- er, YKtDMRMV (Your Kellicam-to-Dilithium-Mass-Ratios-May-Vary)


Culled from "FASA publication 2002: The Klingons Star Fleet (sic) Intelligence Manual":

urtal'anda -- "Earther", literally "big man of Earth". An insult applied to most Humans, whether or not of they are of Terran origin. "Big man" implies that Earth dominates the Federation and that the Human(oid) in question accepts such subjugation.
d'walsk -- calculating machine. An insult commonly aimed at Vulcans
f'lansopra -- (elective) vegetarian, literally "leaf-eater" (ditto)
g'nas -- unattractive for mating
kaz'thaldim -- burned, scarred, or otherwise facially damaged. Literally "facially experienced".

komerex Nevre -- Northern Empire, a historical entity of Klinzhai
falgav a'kana -- Crescent Islanders of Klinzhai, who were conquered by the komerex Nevre
fe'gli -- a rare seaweed-based herb, a prime ingredient in aphrodesiacs that affect most mammalian bipeds

Warship squadron fomations:
oma'l yuth -- "brave wedge"
hu toj maal -- "open mouth/mouth of fear"
juk'y wen'thal -- "ladder of assault"

Tactical maneuvers:
eddakh w'ujalla -- "striking for the spleen"
v'kari z'mortamas -- "many stings of death"
hul fal tora'n -- "glorious exploding star"

-=- Kesvirit
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« Reply #11 on: 06 13, 2004, 10:12: PM »

Now this thread has me wondering about something I put in an earlier post about a large fanclub in my area called mortasse te' kasse, which they translated as death's hand. I believe the literal translation was hand of death.

After reading the last bost, I began to wonder if mortasse was not a fan creation but a mis spelling or mis pronunciation of mortamas, as used inthe phrase: v'kari z'mortamas, many stings of death. Since I'm not sure if the founders of that club are still involved in fandom or even still in this area the answer will probably never be known. however it seems that the phrase hand of death would likely be mortamas te' kasse.

Since the phrase hand of death plays a part in the memorial service I worte and will be using next month, it is helpful to find a potential term that is not also the name of a club. The context it was used in could be mistaken as insulting if one thinks of the club name and not the spiritual concept of the hand of death.
 
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« Reply #12 on: 02 28, 2005, 12:23: AM »

In referance to the "Karizan Empire" and the Mortasse
 teh Karizan Empire existed well before the Mortasse, well before KAG.
 the group from which any and all groups other than Kag and the Karizan formed dates back to the KSF ( I believe that was the name, have to check my old paper records to accurate) under the helm of Kara.
 All groups at this time functioned under the old FASA rules with the FASA guidlines being about hteh only source for relavent info.
 KARA was instrumental in developing the rule book guides for the Klingons and was quite a gamer and GM!
Many of the comon phrases used to day in fandom were generated in the pages of Void Warrior and other Fan generated 'Zines.
 soem of the Language was later developed by Mortasse in conjunction with a certain linguist specifically fo rits membership...

 
 
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« Reply #13 on: 03 03, 2005, 06:54: PM »

Quote Klythe:
Quote
I also thought Okrand was talking about klingonaase too when I frist read the introduction...

Mostly these are typical pronunciation and grammar changes and some unexpected usage to settle confusion between speakers of the Qotmagh dialect and the standard dialect.


That's true; however, there is a statement in Klingon for the Galactic Traveler that allows for klingonaase to be included.

It is on the lower part of pg 15 and the upper part of page 16 and reads:
Quote
...The differences range from being rather subtle to being quite noticeable.  Indeed, there are a few dialects that are so different from one another that the speakers of one can barely communicate with speakers of the other.  In those cases, if it were not for the fact that the Empire is a political whole, and, ever since the days of Kahless, has taken great pride in being so, the so-called dialects might be considered seperate languages.


I take that as meaning:  because klingonaase is spoken by Klingons and has roots on the homeword and with the Klingon species, it is called a dialect.    

The speakers of one can barely communicate with speakers of the other.    

If someone who only spoke klingonaase were speaking  to someone who only knew tlhIngan Hol would they not fit this statement?

The so-called dialects might be considered seperate languages.

If Okrand is not suggesting that klingonaase could (or should) be considered a "so-called dialect" I don't know what he means.
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« Reply #14 on: 04 19, 2011, 03:40: PM »

Just as we do not have a definitive list for what IS klingonaase, we do not have a definitive list of what IS NOT klingonaase. This is problematic for many of us. I lean towards a very uncanon list in that so many of the words do serve a purpose and are useful to fans. Even in one of zan Kesvirit's posts such non canon words are used to better explain the concept of two canon words. The use of the abbreviation -asse to mean klingonaase has become quite common, despite it not coming from Ford and despite it actually only meaning the tool. Yet among those klin of my generation is is well known exactly which tool you are referring to when you use it that way.

As I said in another thread on klingonaase, I have be re-researching this language for a project I have been doing, which has cause me to dredge up these threads after so many years. I know that I have used the word dwalsk as an insult and it was very well received once, even by those that did not know the exact translation. I once wrote a piece on flansopra, and better defining the concept, so those two words at least are as common as any other klingonaase word to me.
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« Reply #15 on: 04 19, 2011, 08:41: PM »

That's true; however, there is a statement in Klingon for the Galactic Traveler that allows for klingonaase to be included.
I realize this is a very old message I'm replying to, but for anyone who's interested: Okrand's actually been a lot more explicit than that:
Quote from: Voragh
There is even a discussion of klingonaase, which Okrand likes! (He says that it's good to see that people are realising that in an "Empire", there would be more than *one* language form.)
http://www.kli.org/tlhIngan-Hol/1998/November/msg00271.html
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« Reply #16 on: 09 29, 2011, 07:03: AM »

I've recreated a Yahoo group to develop Klingonaase. This version will include non Ford aase from non canon sources i.e novels and comics. Eventually we will create more words and a grammar
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Klingonaase
 i have more resources now. I am trying to find a copy of the Writer's Guide to Klingonaase by Lynda Carraher.
« Last Edit: 04 15, 2013, 09:11: AM by lez » Logged
qoSagh
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« Reply #17 on: 10 01, 2011, 08:26: AM »

Interesting idea. I will join this group.

I am not sure about creating new words only because I am not sure how, even in the internet age, they will come into widespread usage.

There is also the small mater of words that are created to be Klingon but it is never specified what language they are supposed to be. I see this allot with the various words written into scripts. These are commonly called Paramount Hol but to my ear they often sound more like klingonasse than tlhIngan Hol. So would this new list include anything that is not absolutely tlhIngan Hol?
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« Reply #18 on: 10 02, 2011, 05:12: AM »

tlhIngan Hol is the dominant language of the Empire so like most other minority languages there will be loan words from the dominant language. Also if a word in Paramount Hol sounds like it can fit into aase it can probably be included.
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qoSagh
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« Reply #19 on: 08 02, 2012, 09:38: AM »

Well it looks like that yahoo group has gone away. It never really became active anyway. However I am always sad to see a Klingon resource go away.
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qoSagh qlIStIy
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« Reply #20 on: 04 30, 2013, 05:00: AM »

I've made a list of all the Klingonaase like words i could find in Klingon related books i could find. I can not find a copy of "Writer's Guide to Klingonaase" but i did find some third party references.
Check it out at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/klingonaase/
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qoSagh
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« Reply #21 on: 06 07, 2013, 02:08: PM »

Nope the yahoo group did not go away, although it is very inactive. I know that most of my klingonaase activity is contained in a series of posts I make over at [another forum] about these words and how they relate to Klingon culture.
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qoSagh qlIStIy
meycha of the qaptaQ www.qaptaQ.org
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"I would kill the children of a thousand planets, just to see you smile."
lez
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« Reply #22 on: 10 18, 2017, 05:42: AM »

Does anybody know what vanssa komarr as in vanssa komarr tokhesa  from the Klingon Strike Force Agonizer 1 means?
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