Klingon Imperial Forums
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email?
05 24, 2012, 10:48: AM
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Search:
Advanced search
Thu 28Aug2008 22:30 PDT:
Guest access restored.
11538
Posts in
1551
Topics by
820
Members
Latest Member:
sarakkatz
Klingon Imperial Forums
Klingon Language & Culture
Klingon Religion & Beliefs
The veqlargh, who is he anyway?
« previous
next »
Pages:
[
1
]
Author
Topic: The veqlargh, who is he anyway? (Read 3193 times)
qoSagh
Warrior Bard of the Ontological
Thought Master
Offline
Posts: 1032
The veqlargh, who is he anyway?
«
on:
09 19, 2005, 06:42: AM »
Based on two of my previous posts I have decided to begin a discussion on this most interesting of Klignon figures.
When thinking of the killing or vanquishing of the gods, it occured to me that the veqlargh was left in place. Why was he not included in the mayhem? In a previous post I asked:
Perhaps that is why the veqlargh is so mean; he was left behind by the rest of the gods, or was considered so inconsequential by the Klingons as to have not been killed/vanquished with the rest.
When talking about the Klingons doing rituals because they need to insure that things formerly done by the gods are now done right by mortals I thought about the veqlargh again
Klingons have become guardians of their own destiny. That actually begins to flesh out my questions about the veqlargh, a bit more. Hmmmmmm.
So I ask these questions? Is the veqlargh a god? Is he the Devil? Is he a supernatural being that used to work for the gods? How is it that he was not killed or vanquished with the rest? How would one as vile tempered as the veqlargh react to being left out, even in death? If his job is esentially like being a guardian of honr, in that he makes sure the dishonored don't get to Sto-vo-kor, is becomming the "masters of our own destiny" something that angers the veqlargh?
It would be one thing to take up the duties of a dead god, but to take up the duties of a living god or servant of the gods? Has the Klingon stewardship lead to more or less dishonor? Are we in fact not stipping the veqlargh of his work, but perhaps overworking him?
Are there any others left over from the pantheon that missed out on the final solution? Whatabout the Shadowheart? How does he intere\act with the veqlargh, do they compliment or compete with each other? Are they infact different representations of the same being? I would think that if they are, the Shadowheart would be the modren watered down version.
The veqlargh has always been of interest to me, because we know so little of him.
Logged
qoSagh qlIStIy
meycha of the qaptaQ
www.qaptaQ.org
Prothonotary of the Desert Rite
"I would kill the children of a thousand planets, just to see you smile."
Abbot Nej vIt
Highly Opinionated Klingon
Thought Master
Offline
Posts: 790
"I Will Take the Conquerer Ceasers Salad... Now!"
Re: The veqlargh, who is he anyway?
«
Reply #1 on:
09 19, 2005, 10:47: AM »
Some Excellent Questions.
It Also Occurs to me, that what little we do Know of the veqlargh Suggests that he (If it is a He) is Not Much Interested in the Day to Day Affairs of Klingon Life... (Thus Solidly Supporting Kangs Argument that there is No Klingon Devil, as the Earthers Concept of a Devil certainly Includes Intervention in Mortal Lives). It is Not until a Challenge is Made to Reach Sto-vo-kor that the veqlargh gets into the Thick.
So Perhaps The Klingon Gods were Seen as Interlopers, They wished to be Supreme in the Nature of the Universe, And Perhaps served Little Other Purpose. ("If there are Gods they Do not Care")... Leaving the veqlargh in place assures that a "Neutral" Party will be left to Challenge the Honor of a Dead Klingon... (Or more Precisely to Guard Gre'tlhor And Lord over the Dishonored Dead). We have Not seen any examples of the veqlargh Actively trying to Sway Decisions of Honor, Not tricking anyone into doing Something that would Rob them of their Honor or Otherwise Interfering with Free Will. Perhaps this was How Worf "Knew" that he was Not Seeing the "Real" veqlargh (TNG "Devils Due"), because Ardra was attempting to Manipulate Mortals, a Decidedly un veqlargh thing to do.
So this Argument Suggests that The Gods May have Either Outlived their Usefulness, or may Never Have Been Needed at all... Where as The veqlargh still Serves a Very Definite Function.
Of Course there is No Clear Argument that The veqlargh is a God either, so Perhaps it is that Simple.
Also Since The veqlargh is a Myth, perhaps its Usefullness is as a Moral Barometer, or more Acurately as a Tool to "Encourage" Proper Behavior? Sort of a Boogins if you will...
Logged
Archbishop Nej vIt SutaI-H'Nter,
Spiritual Advisor to K.L.A.W. 4th Fleet,
Abbot, Dugh toy'wI' Library,
http://www.klingonlegion.com/summergames2006/
Mithrandir-Olorin
Newcomer
Offline
Posts: 2
Re: The veqlargh, who is he anyway?
«
Reply #2 on:
04 18, 2012, 08:47: PM »
If he's a villain maybe he was behind their Slaying? Or he simply wasn't where the other gods where at the time because he was "Cast out".
Logged
El Payaso Malo
Lettered Veteran
Offline
Posts: 205
jaS jIvang-ghopwIj luQIHlu'chugh qIvonlIj vIpuplaH
Re: The veqlargh, who is he anyway?
«
Reply #3 on:
04 19, 2012, 06:17: PM »
What the
yIntagh
is a "Shadowheart?"
And Fek'lhr is definitely a devil analogue in that he guards the gates of the netherworld, but since he doesn't seem to lead mortals to dishonor; that's what allows the "no devil argument" to hold water (as distasteful as water may be).
Logged
-'IwwIjDaq 'oH veS.
-ngoQ ghajnISbe' vIq. vIq ngoQ 'oH vIq. qatlh ngej rop'a' bIghelbe' 'ej qatlh meQ yotlh bIghelbe'. jISuvDI' meqwIj vIQIj 'e' DaghelQo'.
-qul ngaDHa' 'oH QeHwIj 'ej vaHbo' pubbogh 'Iw 'oH QeHwIj. choHIvmo' qaSuvbe'. bIyIntaHmo' qaSuv.
qoSagh
Warrior Bard of the Ontological
Thought Master
Offline
Posts: 1032
Re: The veqlargh, who is he anyway?
«
Reply #4 on:
04 20, 2012, 08:22: AM »
Shadowheart is a Klingon mythical creature (sometimes called a demon) that is only seen from the corners of your eyes, and if you see him it is a bad sign. It is said that only the dishonored see him as he comes to take you away for your dishonor.
The character comes from one f the TNG comics mini-series written by Michael Jan Friedman, and in my opinion this story was superior to his work in Kahless. However like most trek writing there is an effort to involve as many mainstream characters in it as possible. Thus it is largely a story about Riker, Worf & Kurn going to some Klingon frontier world where a group of indigenous Klingons are rebelling against the KDF garrison there. There are also guest appearances by Gowron, Lursa & Be'tor.
The Rebel leader has taken on the identity of the Shadowheart, in order to try and scare the KDF forces. There are a few tidbits about the Shadowheart thrown into the story for flavor, but still not much is known about him. I will not spoil the other guest appearance for you but the rebel leader who is calling himself Shadowheart is another guest appearance, but his is critical to the plot.
Logged
qoSagh qlIStIy
meycha of the qaptaQ
www.qaptaQ.org
Prothonotary of the Desert Rite
"I would kill the children of a thousand planets, just to see you smile."
El Payaso Malo
Lettered Veteran
Offline
Posts: 205
jaS jIvang-ghopwIj luQIHlu'chugh qIvonlIj vIpuplaH
Re: The veqlargh, who is he anyway?
«
Reply #5 on:
04 20, 2012, 03:51: PM »
Ah, so that's why I haven't heard of him. I very rarely delve outside of canon.
Star Trek Online
is about as far outside of canon as I tend to go. I believe that the Fek'lhr Horde is an anti-Klingon faction in it, though; featuring Molor, Fek'lhr and minor Fek'lhr minions.
Logged
-'IwwIjDaq 'oH veS.
-ngoQ ghajnISbe' vIq. vIq ngoQ 'oH vIq. qatlh ngej rop'a' bIghelbe' 'ej qatlh meQ yotlh bIghelbe'. jISuvDI' meqwIj vIQIj 'e' DaghelQo'.
-qul ngaDHa' 'oH QeHwIj 'ej vaHbo' pubbogh 'Iw 'oH QeHwIj. choHIvmo' qaSuvbe'. bIyIntaHmo' qaSuv.
qoSagh
Warrior Bard of the Ontological
Thought Master
Offline
Posts: 1032
Re: The veqlargh, who is he anyway?
«
Reply #6 on:
04 24, 2012, 12:12: AM »
I have always thought of licensed material such as novels and comics as sort of a semi-canon.
Regardless of the status, there have been many good stories that have come from the comics, especially back when DC published them. Some good stories that really fleshed out some of the well known characters and even added some interesting stories that likely would have been impossible to film. I remember one where Q turned the entire TNG crew into Klingons, while they were transporting ambassadors from a race that if they even smelled another warrior would initiate hand to hand combat. Another one had Kirk and his crew travel back in time to see Klingon flying aces and barnstormers in early bi-planes.
Logged
qoSagh qlIStIy
meycha of the qaptaQ
www.qaptaQ.org
Prothonotary of the Desert Rite
"I would kill the children of a thousand planets, just to see you smile."
Klythe
ngem Sargh lIghwI' pagh cha'
Administrator
Thought Master
Online
Posts: 1019
When a show of teeth doesn't work, bite deeply.
Re: The veqlargh, who is he anyway?
«
Reply #7 on:
04 27, 2012, 12:55: AM »
I wouldn't be so quick to say that the
veqlargh
does not interfere with mortals, at least one of the "replacement proverbs",
HIvqa′ veqlargh
=> "
The Fek'lhr strikes again!
" uses the tactic to blame the
veqlargh
for an embarrassing social gaff. Which brings us back to whether that makes the
veqlargh
a Devil, a Demon, or a Daimon. Sounds more like
Phil
,
the Prince of Insufficient Light
than a proper Devil.
Do we have evidence whether or not the
veqlargh
existed before the Gods were vanquished? If Kotar was impressed to captain the Barge of the Dead, could the
veqlargh
have been another Klingon or another entity involved in the vanquishing of the gods and similarly impressed into eternal service for their role in overthrowing the natural order of things? Perhaps he was another supernatural entity that was jealous of the gods, and for the
veqlargh
's role in assisting the Klingons to surmount the mystical barriers was rewarded(punished) with exactly what the
veqlargh
thought the
veqlargh
wanted?
«
Last Edit: 05 01, 2012, 01:45: PM by Klythe
»
Logged
El Payaso Malo
Lettered Veteran
Offline
Posts: 205
jaS jIvang-ghopwIj luQIHlu'chugh qIvonlIj vIpuplaH
Re: The veqlargh, who is he anyway?
«
Reply #8 on:
04 27, 2012, 03:35: AM »
Causing you to drop meatballs and make you look foolish is more the work of a gremlin than a force of true evil.
HIvqa' veqlargh
, for example, couldn't be used if you were caught poisoning your father's food. That replacement proverb indicates to me that Fek'lhr might be seen as an occasional hindrance or mischief maker rather that the "tempting devil" figure. For example, I don't see Fek'lhr whispering to you "Go on, pump the theragen into your father's room. It will make you the leader of the former House of Sarpek and new House of Rorik! Besides, no one will ever know..."
Also, whenever the comics, novels; whatever differ from actual canon, you can always say it's an alternate reality.
Star Trek
already has several thousand of those so what's a few more?
Logged
-'IwwIjDaq 'oH veS.
-ngoQ ghajnISbe' vIq. vIq ngoQ 'oH vIq. qatlh ngej rop'a' bIghelbe' 'ej qatlh meQ yotlh bIghelbe'. jISuvDI' meqwIj vIQIj 'e' DaghelQo'.
-qul ngaDHa' 'oH QeHwIj 'ej vaHbo' pubbogh 'Iw 'oH QeHwIj. choHIvmo' qaSuvbe'. bIyIntaHmo' qaSuv.
Pages:
[
1
]
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Forum Etiquette, News & Announcements
-----------------------------
=> Rules and Regulations: The Forum Etiquette & Posting Guidelines (MUST READ BEFORE POSTING)
=> Forum News & Announcements
===> Returning Members Must Read in Order to Sign In
=> Forum Feedback
-----------------------------
General Discussions
-----------------------------
=> The Reception Hall
=> General Discussions
=> Klingon News
===> Klingon Events & Activities
=====> Convention Reports and Reviews
=====> Invitations to Events (Open to All)
=====> Blood Drives
=====> Other
===> Klingon Community News
===> Klingons in the News
===> The Comics Section
-----------------------------
Klingon Language & Culture
-----------------------------
=> Klingon Ceremonies, Rituals & Traditions
===> Ceremonies & Traditions: General Questions & Discussion
===> Matters of Family, Line, and House
===> Klingon Religion and Spirituality
===> Warriors’ Rites & Traditions
=> Klingon Language
===> Requests for Translations
===> General Language Discussion in English
===> Conversation in thlIngan Hol only
=> Klingon Religion & Beliefs
=> Klingon Social Studies
-----------------------------
Klingon Arts and Media
-----------------------------
=> Klingon Arts and Music
===> Klingon Art and Artwork
===> Klingon Music and Lyrics
=> Klingon Poetry and Short Stories
===> Klingon Poetry
===> Klingon Short Stories
=> The Inspirational Media Room: Klingon-related Books, TV & Movies
===> Classics of Klingon Literature
===> Klingons on Television
===> Klingons on the Big Screen
-----------------------------
Other Klingon-related Topics
-----------------------------
=> The Klingon Kitchen
=> The Klingon Game Room
===> Klin Zha
===> RPGs and Sims
=====> Empire of Warriors RPG(Retired)
=====> Fall of the Hurq
=====> The Recruiting Center
===> Klingon and Star Trek computer games
=> The Klingon Science Lab
===> Klingon Biology & Physiology
===> Klingon Technology and Engineering
===> Stellar Sciences
=> The Klingon Marketplace
-----------------------------
Klingon Guilds
-----------------------------
=> Klingon Imperial Costumers Guild
===> Uniforms & Tunics
===> Pins, Jewelry & Badges
===> Props, Accessories & Footwear
===> Make-up & Headpieces
=> Klingon Webmasters Guild
===> Introduce Your Website
===> Web Design Questions
===> Software Reviews & Recommendations
===> Designing for Accessibility
=> Klingon Programmers Guild
=> Klingon Line Registry
===> Post your family line history
===> House and family alliances and adoptions
===> Places to promote your house, family, and line
===> General house & family line discussions