Hail, and well met fellow Warriors

[qoSagh]

Greetings,

I have recently joined the forums after hearing about thier rebirth. I am also active on most of the Yahoo Klingon Groups. I am getting back into Klingon fandom after a self imposed semi retirement.

qoSagh is my fourth Klingon character, and the second most developed. Most who know me from fandom will remember me as Beragha. I started in Klindom as a member of the Karizan Empire in NYC, and from there was one of two founding members of the qaptaQ which is a fraternal based Klingon order, kind of like the concept of Warrior Monks.

The qaptaQ was formed specifically to create a (fictional) Klingon religion because there were far too many intrusions of various human religions being brought into Klingon fandom at the time. For me the turning point was when a mother would not let her child enter a room full of Klingons at a convention because we were "those devil people". From then on I started working towards a seperation between Klindom and reality as far a religion goes.

As a club, we are very ceremonial. We conduct ceremonies both for club business (promotions and such) and social needs (weddings/funerals) in a role play sense. We have been doing Klingon weddings long before DS9 did the now famous one. Sadly we had to put a moratorium on them as it became our most popular request. Our other main roleplaying outlet is Trek themed Paintball, where we are usually the only Klingons on a field full of feds. This has led to other mot role playing paint ball games among members. Of course convention attendance is important, but geographically there are very few conventions in my area any more.

Thats about all I can ramble on about as an Introduction.

qoSagh qlIStIy
meycha of the qaptaQ
Prothonotary of the Desert Rite

[Klythe]

The one that blew me away was Klingons for Christ.   How anyone would think that Klingon values mesh with Christianity doesn't understand either very well...  Almost like Klingons for  Howard Dean now that he's dropped out of the race.  Klingons just don't care for people the same way as Terran politicians of either party.

    I think I have seen your Wedding ceremony described on a webpage, but I don't remember where...

 

[qoSagh]

I'm not sure if the wedding ever made it to the web, but if it did thats great. The largest audience we did was for over 350 at the Morristown Museum in New Jersey. We did it as a 1 shot deal, and then a second time to fill empty programing space. There were so many requests to see it again that we did a third the next day.

Now in reply to the Klingons for Christ, this is an interesting question and very likely moving off topic, however...

I have had an ongoing debate with one of my line vbrothers about the concept of Christian Klingons. He thinks that there could be and I have long said that the two were incompatible. That was until B&B decided to make Kahless into Jesus. Now I see that it is not only possible it is almost paramount authorized. Just last month I had the chance to meet the founder of Klingons for Christ at a convention. We talked for quite a long time and I came home with his flyer.

Lets face it, either by design or accident the powers that be have made Kahless into Jesus, the only operative difference is that Kahless is in the midst of his second comming as we speak. Now there are come notable differences between Christians and Klingons that follow Kaless, but they are getting fewer and fewer each time Kahless gets mentioned. After all there is a fundemental difference in the following two concepts:

Turn the other Cheek & If you shine my nose I will hand you yours.

While I am both a Christian and a Klingon, I do not see the blending of the two into a single entity as anything good. First I have strived to seperate Klindom from real religions, second it does a disservice to Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) to fictionalize any part of it by adding a fictional race of characters such as Klingons.
 

[Klythe]

Now in reply to the Klingons for Christ, this is an interesting question and very likely moving off topic, however...

     Anything you are interested in is the topic.  This is where we get to know you.   But if you want to talk about something in depth, please feel free to start a new topic somewhere else.  

Now there are come notable differences between Christians and Klingons that follow Kaless, but they are getting fewer and fewer each time Kahless gets mentioned. After all there is a fundemental difference in the following two concepts:

Turn the other Cheek & If you shine my nose I will hand you yours.

    I guess mostly of it depends on what you think is the most important part of christianity.  Christ's teachings or the particular details of Christ's actual life on earth.   I think his teachings are most important.  

While I am both a Christian and a Klingon, I do not see the blending of the two into a single entity as anything good. First I have strived to seperate Klindom from real religions, second it does a disservice to Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) to fictionalize any part of it by adding a fictional race of characters such as Klingons.

    I would hope that all terran religions would be offended to be associated with Klingons.   All political parties too...  Klingons are fun in thier own context, but mixing them into RL is usually a bad idea.
 

[qoSagh]

I once put forward that Ferengi were honorable in thier own way, they have laws (Rules of Aquisition) that they follow without fail. They distrust and eventually cast out anyone who does not follow those rules. They have a common cultural identity and guard thier traditions (like nude women) very strongly.

Ferengi can be seen as honorable to thier own standard, yet not to the Klingon standard, in that the concepts that they are honoring are distasteful to Klingons. I guess this is the same with Klingons and Christianity, Both traditions stress honor, duty & obedience (as it says in the Klingons for Christ flyer) but the laws that are being obeyed, the duty that is being performed and the cultural traditions that are being honored are all fundementally different.

I've never heard about Klingons for Howard Dean, and I do hope that was just a joke, but I fear it was not. I agree that we should all try ernestly to keep the factual and fictional seperated, if for no other reason than for our own sanity. One minor point though, I'm not sure that offended is the right word, I do not agree with mixing these things. However I am not offended because I can see that the intention, misguided as it may be, was not to offend me personally or christianity as a whole.

 

[SoplaHtaHwI']

qoSagh: I once put forward that Ferengi were honorable in thier own way

As I see it, adhering to ones civilisation's rules & regulations does not make one honorable, sec.

What does define honor is the way one interacts with his fellow beings, whether this adheres or goes against ones civilisations rules.

One can be a law obiding citizen, but be as dishonorable as #&$!~.
Although this is not detailed in written down rules, the sentiment I think goes for both Klingons as christians.

I do agree that fiction and fact should, as a whole, stay separated. Although I do transgress on this at times. Very conciously, I add.
 

[qoSagh]

Since it came up in another thread, I will put it here in my own somewhat older thread.

My first introduction to the world of Klindom was at a convention where I met a group of Klingons. They seemed rude and arrogant, which it didn't dawn on me was the way they were supposed to be. They were quite passive about recruiting, just leaving flyers on a table, and the flyer asked for money up front. I later found out that the leader of that club was famous for taking money and giving little in return. I took the flyer home but never got arround to joining.

A couple of years later I went to the now defunt Creation Thanksgiving Convention in New York. Right at the dealers room entrance was a table full of Klingons. They were very active about recruiting, talked highly of the empire and the club, really made me want to join. But they had somehow forgotten to bring pens to the convention. I was assured that if I came back in an hour they would be able to sign me up.

After walking arround the dealers room for a bit, I came across a dark room off to the side, that was full of Klingons. I mistook them for the ones I had talked too previously, and asked if they had a pen, which they did. I signed up and was pleased to find out that this club didn't charge any fees. I was introduced to several other new members and some older members. When the leaders found out I was from a state they had not yet expanded into and was asked to start a chapter/ship. In one day I had become a Captain.

That club, the Karizan Empire, was an interesting experience. They did role play like no other club I have ever seen. They had formal ceremonial meetings. They were ruled over by a large council. They were also the most political organization I have ever been a part of. Friendships were treated like prizes to be bought and sold, made and broken as needs changed. Civil war was almost always ongoing. There was more often than not, open warfare between the various Klingon Clubs. Various people would suddenly declare themselves the leader of the club, and bring on new turmoil. Truly the imbodiment of "May you live in interesting times."

It still took me a few years to realize all this wasn't healthy. I eventually realized I had to leave. I did a brief stint running a Confederate Starfleet club which never really took off, then came back to Klingons. By the time I came back to Klindom, the qaptaQ was formalizing, and this seemed like the best fit for me. Not just because it was family run either, though the nepetism didn't hurt. Throughout the years no matter how active or inactive as a Klingon I have been the qaptaQ has allowed me the chance to explore spiritual and cultural aspects of Klingon life that a military based club would not have.

When I started in Klindom, there was little cultural information out there except FASA, TNG didn't seem interested. Since then there have been many interesting developments. There were no clubs that really accepted non military characters other than career diplomats, now that has changed. While the qaptaQ stongly advocated the Warrior Way, we are not a paramilitary club (at least in as much as a non militaristic Klingon group cold be). I have lately found myself to be more active on cyber areas like this, than in live action but then again there are few conventions in my area any more.

Oh well enough rambling for now, at least on this subject.

[Abbot Nej vIt]

qoSagh,

We Meet Again... (On the Boards)...

I Have Only Ever Belonged to One Klingon Organization, and it has had it's Various Elements of Chaos just as Any Club does... I Have Been A Member of Two Federation Clubs, One I Joined Briefly Many Years Ago When I was In The Army... But it was Too Far away to really Do Anything With... (Can not Remember The Name Now, But I met them at a Creation Con In KY).

The Second was Closer and I was Able to Get a Little More Involved, And at the Time I Did Not Even Know that there were Klngon Specific Groups... But Two Things Led me to Klindom,

1) At the Time I was Really into the Party/Social Scene of Fandom, And After a Few Cons of Finding Myself Standing Around in a Room Full of Middle Aged Folks, Drinking Orange Crush and Watching HBO, I Decided to Take My Beer elsewhere... Now, I Have Every Respect for People Getting Enjoyment out of Whatever Turns them On, And if that is Orange Crush So Be it... But they were also Very Standoff-ish... Perhaps My Long Hair And Tattoos, Or The Beer and Smokes Made me Unapproachable, but I Found Myself Wandering Around Just Meeting People and Kinda Avoided Advertised Room Parties after a Few Cons of this... Then I Attended a Con in a Different City, and Saw a Mess of Klingons Having a Blast... I Got Shooed out of a Private C.O.L. Meeting that I Stumbled into By Accident, but even then it Took them a Moment to Identify me as Other than Another Klingon...<Chuckle>... Anyway I was Encouraged to Check out a Consortship Ceremony later that Evening, (Long Before DS9), And Really Enjoyed the Spectacle of it... So I Got Some Info And the Rest is History... I am Still Friends with the Two that Were Consorted Incidentally, Very Good Friends actually... But the Point Was that I was Instantly Given the Opportunity to Choose Rather I was Interested in Being a Part of the Club on my Own Terms, And Not Based on Rather I Knew Admiral So-and-So, Or The Low Rank on my Feddie Collar...

2) The Second... Though Vain... Is That In My Doterage, I have Had to Admit that Klingon Uniforms are Considerably More Forgiving than The Spandex Feddie Stuff...<Howls With Laughter>... Seriously, Though The Federation Uniforms are Made for A Very Narrowly Defined Body Type... Which In and Of itself is perhaps Insignificant... But the Message was pretty Clear by the way Many Folks Look Very Unhappy in their Too Tight Spandex, that Part of that was Image.... It has Been My Experience that Klingons Are a lot more Willing to Wait to See who You are Before Passing Judgement... And that is as it Should be... Klingons to me Represent (Ironically), in Fandom a Level Of Tolerance that I Did not Percieve with Feddie Clubs... Not Saying we are Perfect, But Most Everyone is Given at least a Chance to See if it is their Scene or Not, at least in the Club that I belong to, Though I have had Countless Long into the Night Discussions With Klingons From A Lot of Different Clubs... I Like that...

[qoSagh]

I'm not sure if it is Tolerance exactly or just a different set of standards. Klingons are larger than life, and I think a large Klingon would be seen as a battle enhancement. A large feddie, well we have all seen the limits of spandex pushed too far. I agree that the uniforms don't accomodate more body types which is a bit of a shame for fans. I have also noticed that personality plays a big part in Klingon recognition, which is perhaps due to the role play aspect, most feddies are playing themselves, use thier real names, just walk around as humans, after all.

I too have been briefly a member of federation clubs, but I have had the worst luck with them they either fail or relocate HQ right after I join. Perhaps I am a secret Klingon weapon...lol

[Abbot Nej vIt]

Yes... Perhaps at Heart, (And the Point of all of this?), we are ALL Klingon Weapons...<Chuckle>...