Learning tlhIngan Hol (Klingon)

[KiLLerZ]

nuqneH,

Thanks for taking the time to read my topic. This is my first time to post, I tried looking through the forums to see if my question got asked/answered, but I can't seem to find any. Now I LOVE Star Trek, and have fallen in love with the Klingon culture, language, everything about it, and want to be able to speak the language fluently, but the thing is, I can't seem to find anything, the KLI doesn't seem to have that much, I though about purchasing a membership, but waited to see if it is worth it. Do you guys know how I can learn to speak it fluently, it would mean SO much to me, to be able to speak it. I also know that to speak a language fluently, you need to be surrounded by it, but that is almost impossible as I am in New Zealand, and I know no one that speaks Klingon, but I do know people who might be interested in learning, do you also know if there is a place, like on skype or paltak, or anything really (voice chat), where Klingon is spoken, so I can be with people who share my passion and also be able to practice?

Thank you again and I hope you enjoy your day,
Qapla'

[Kehlan]

There are several books and cd's that can get you started, such as the new Eurotalk Learn Klingon, the Klingon dictionary, Klingon for the Galactic traveller and Power Klingon.

[tesseraktik]

"The Klingon Dictionary" and "Klingon for the Galactic Traveler" by Marc Okrand are the main resources, but as Kehlan mentions they're far from the only ones.

The founder of the KLI has a daily Klingon language podcast; check out www.lawrencemschoen.com

Other good sites:
www.klingonska.org
http://hol.kag.org

I also have a YouTube series called Hoghvam mu' {"this week's word"}. The original intent, as the name implies, was to produce one episode per week, but unfortunately I've fallen way behind schedule.

[KiLLerZ]

Thank you so much for all your help, but is there like a site where it has ALL the Klingon Learning resources in like a list (of the books, CDs, programs etc.), and also, is the eurotalk program any good, is there anything else better than it, if so what? Last question, if there is, what is the BEST place/program/book etc. to learn klingon?

[Kehlan]

Well, I would say the Eurotalk CD is good, I'm the female voice on it, lol.  I'll leave the others to tell you if its worth buying though.  It'll teach you stuff like "Is it safe to swim here"  the Klingon words for Teddy Bear (I kid you not) toast, burgers, wine, bananas....

It wont teach you how to command a Bird Of Prey or do anything that is actually Star Trek related.

Also, I'm going to answer your PM here as one of the other contributors might know the answer.  I don't know which of the two editions of Klingon for the Galactic Traveller is better, or even if  there is a difference between them... Maybe someone here can help with that question?

[ter'eS]

Not to fault Kehlan, who did a fine job with her part of it, but I find the EuroTalk/TalkNow CD kind of a waste of money. There's really very little content to it; you'll probably finish it in a day or two and never go back to it again.

It wont teach you how to command a Bird Of Prey or do anything that is actually Star Trek related.

There's the crux of my problem with it. The TalkNow people have a template into which they shoehorn every language they sell. It must be a cash cow for them: the original programming for the template has probably paid for itself many times over by now, so all they have to pay for is translating and recording the current language they are releasing. And since it's a template, the current language is forced to fit, whether it's appropriate or not. So we're told that the word for "Hello" is nuqneH (despite statements to the contrary that date back to the very first edition of TKD) and we get words for things like teddy bears and sunscreen, because the template required something in those slots.

It's a fun novelty item, and there is some useful vocabulary, but for a serious student of tlhIngan Hol, it's a big disappointment, in my opinion.

[KiLLerZ]

right, so would you recommend all the Marc Okrand stuff (dictionary, conversational, power, guide to galactic traveler and the klingon way), would all of them be enough to reach fluency though? WOW Kehlan, that is so cool, so you are fluent in tlhIngan Hol? Finally, so I guess there is no place for practicing speaking?

[ter'eS]

There are maybe 20 people in the world who are fluent in Klingon, in the sense of being able to carry on a real-time conversation. Kehlan may be one, but in general, people you hear on tapes and films are basically reciting a script. Most of us are happy to be able to read and write with some skill.

There is no single source for learning Klingon, either reading, writing or speaking. There is no single website that I know of, that will give you everything you need to become skilled at Klingon.  The sites and resources you have been given are the major ones. They really are enough, if you put in enough effort.  I suggest you start there. You could also join the Klingon Language Institute mailing list, which is the only place I know of that has regular, on-going communications in Klingon.

[KiLLerZ]

Oh man, that's disappointing, why won't there be more people, oh man, I mean, it's such an awesome language.

Just one last question, I was signing up for Star Trek Online, and I decided to with the name "qul qIj", is that the correct way of saying black fire, becuase the dictionary says that adjectives become verbs, and they go AFTER the noun, I just wanted to make sure I got it right.

Thank you again for all your help, I really appreciate

Qapla'

[tesseraktik]

qul qIj is, indeed, a correct way of saying "black fire".

[Kehlan]

Kehlan may be one, but in general, people you hear on tapes and films are basically reciting a script.

Kehlan is unfortunately NOT one of them.  As Ter'eS says, these things are done with a script.  My partner in the project qe'San Is a genuine speaker of Klingon and did the translation for the disc.  As all phrases are spoken by both male and female, all I had to do was listen carefully to the recording of him saying the phrase and then repeat it accurately.  I have a good ear for languages and repeating sounds accurately is easy for me.

any differences between mine and qe'San's pronunciation can be put down to the fact that he is from one of the better regions of Qo'noS whereas I grew up in a Klingon orphanage and therefore don't talk posh like he does.

[KiLLerZ]

nuqheH

Again, thank you all so much for your all your help, but I have two final questions, first, is it possible to say Scorpion in tlhIngan, like the animal? Second, does tar 'aw' mean poisonous sting (and is that the correct sentence structure)? I know 'aw' is sting and tar is poison, does that mean that the suffix -ous doesn't exist in tlhIngan, as poison sting doesn't make a lot of sense.

Qapla'

[ter'eS]

This would be correct, except that 'aw' is a verb, and you can't use a verb in a N1-N2 construction. I can't think of a noun alternative to 'aw' at the moment. 

In general, the N1-N2 construction does a lot of the work of adjectives in English, especially adjectives of composition, origin, etc., as in peQ chem 'magnetic field' (peQ magnetism chem field (of energy)) or romuluS HIq 'Romulan ale' (HIq ale). The underlying logic of the construction is that N1 modifies, limits or defines the terms referenced in N2: yaS taj 'officer's knife' (yaS officer, taj knife): of the set of all knives, the one of the officer; romuluS HIq: of the set of all ales, the Romulan kind, etc.

BTW, please stop using nuqneH for "Hello". I don't care what you've been told otherwise, it is not what you say to start a conversation. It literally means "What do you want".  If you walk up to me, does it make sense for you to ask me what I want? (If you do, I'll reply "For you to go away."). You're supposed to walk up to me, stand there silently, and wait for me to ask you nuqneH. In a forum, you don't need to start your post with anything, just write your post. If you're trying to be polite, STOP IT! Are you a Klingon, or a weak Terran? 

[qoSagh]

BTW, please stop using nuqneH for "Hello". I don't care what you've been told otherwise, it is not what you say to start a conversation. It literally means "What do you want".  If you walk up to me, does it make sense for you to ask me what I want? (If you do, I'll reply "For you to go away."). You're supposed to walk up to me, stand there silently, and wait for me to ask you nuqneH. In a forum, you don't need to start your post with anything, just write your post. If you're trying to be polite, STOP IT! Are you a Klingon, or a weak Terran? 

Thank You, this has been a pet peeve of mine for years, I have written about this many times. In the sense of an internet forums it brings up two other concerns, one Klingon and one human (or at least Generic) but they are interwoven.

A thread on a forum is the internet equivalent of a conversation. No greeting is needed at each post, it would be like saying Hello before every phrase in a conversation. In the case of the Klingon phrase for what do you want, this adds even more confusion as it tends to derail the conversation further than the confusing hello would in English. Imagine this:

1: Hello
2: Hello
1: Hello, How are you?
2: I am fine.
1: Hello, I am also fine.
2: That is good.
1: Hello, yes it is.
2: How is your family?
1: Hello, they are fine as well.

You get the gist of my point from that. If you replace the sinple statement of hello with the question of nuq neH, it gets even weirder.

1: What do you want?
2: I want nothing, I do not even know you.
1: What do you want? No you misunderstand, it is I that want something.
2: Then why did you ask me what I wanted.
1: What do you want? I did not, I just said Hello before asking.
2: No you asked me what I wanted. Oh well what is it that you want?
1: What do you want? I would like to know how to speak Klingon.
2: I guess I want to be able to answer your request but I I still do not understand your question.
1: What do you want? I am not asking a question.
2: There you go again.

Really it all has a very Abbot & Costello vibe to it, when translated into English.

[tesseraktik]

A YouTube video I did aboiut the word nuqneH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br9IAbqoeFQ (LOUD; lower volume before checking)

[KiLLerZ]

BTW, please stop using nuqneH for "Hello". I don't care what you've been told otherwise, it is not what you say to start a conversation. It literally means "What do you want".  If you walk up to me, does it make sense for you to ask me what I want? (If you do, I'll reply "For you to go away."). You're supposed to walk up to me, stand there silently, and wait for me to ask you nuqneH. In a forum, you don't need to start your post with anything, just write your post. If you're trying to be polite, STOP IT! Are you a Klingon, or a weak Terran? 

I am sorry ter'eS for misusing the word, thank you for correcting me, I have now learned and will never do it again. Thank you qoSagh and tesseraktik, that really helped.

So I guess you can't say animals in tlhIngan Hol?

Qapla'

tlhIngan wo' taHjaj

[tesseraktik]

So I guess you can't say animals in tlhIngan Hol?

Ha'DIbaH(mey) = animal(s)

[KiLLerZ]

So I guess you can't say animals in tlhIngan Hol?

Ha'DIbaH(mey) = animal(s)

Sorry, I meant animals, not the word animals, like scorpion (which is an animal/bug I think), lion, tiger, etc.

Also, I was going through the ultralingua Klingon dictionary, and it says that "QoS" is a verb which means "to be sorry", is that true, so if I like pumped into someone, could I just say "QoS"?

I am pretty sure this is not possible, but could you thank people in Klingon, and is it also possible to say Good Morning/Afternoon/Night, if so, what are the Klingon words?

Last question, I have the Klingon Guide to the Galactic Traveler, and am awaiting the Klingon Dictionary, should I start reading the galactic traveler now or wait for the dictionary, do I read the warrior's way after both of them and when do the two audio ones come in (conversational and power klingon), like what order to read/listen (to) them for best experience?

Qapla'

[tesseraktik]

There are very few Klingon words for Terran animals (and animals in general, actually), and I'm afraid I can't think of anything all that similar to a scorpion.

"I'm sorry" would be jIQoS.

maj ram is one way of saying "Good night". There's also yInajchu': "Dream perfectly!"
The EuroTalk DVD gives maj po as "Good morning", but it shoul be taken with a huge pinch of salt; it's probably not actually something a Klingon would ever say.

Some us qatlho' to mean "Thank you!", but MO has specified that the word shouldn't actually be used this way. I personally think it should only be used in constructions such as qatlho'meH targhvam qanob. {I give you this targ as thanks.}; actions speak louder than words, after all.

[ter'eS]

Also, I was going through the ultralingua Klingon dictionary, and it says that "QoS" is a verb which means "to be sorry", is that true, so if I like pumped into someone, could I just say "QoS"?

As Clipped Klingon (a form of battlefield shorthand), this would be fine.

Last question, I have the Klingon Guide to the Galactic Traveler, and am awaiting the Klingon Dictionary, should I start reading the galactic traveler now or wait for the dictionary, do I read the warrior's way after both of them and when do the two audio ones come in (conversational and power klingon), like what order to read/listen (to) them for best experience?

TKD is truly a grammar, and it says almost nothing about Klingon culture, so you do not need to wait to read it. t will not harm your enjoyment of the other items, which are more culture-oriented, using Klingon phrases for examples. Having a grasp of Klingon grammar will probably increase your enjoyment of the examples, but I don't think you need to wait.  I also don't think those titles need be used in any particular order. They were all sold as standalone products, so as not to scare off people new to Klingon.

[Kehlan]

The EuroTalk DVD gives maj po as "Good morning", but it shoul be taken with a huge pinch of salt; it's probably not actually something a Klingon would ever say.

Maj po is certainly the closest you'd get in  Klingon to "Good Morning"  and the translations were approved by Marc Okrand.  I suspect though, its not something a Klingon might say to other Klingons but maybe when speaking to a Terran....

[qoSagh]

Even if a Klingon would say Good Morning, to anyone would it mean the same thing as it does to a human? Culturally such pleasantries are generally non-existent amongst Klingons, however what a Klingon considers to be good and what a human considers to be good are likely very different things. A human soldier leaving to go to work my be wished a safe return by his wife While his Klingon counterpart might be wished an honorable death by his wife. This is what makes cultural translations so difficult.

[Klythe]

     I believe in one of the language takes Okrand qualifies "Good morning' as something like "Good.  It's morning".  I take this to mean, "Oh good you weren't one of the 4,000 throat owners that won't be waking up this morning after last night's encounter with the running man with the knife"   

[Kehlan]

I could see two soldiers meeting before a battle and greeting each other with "Its a good morning to kill our enemies" or two farmers saying "Its a good morning to get the targs branded"

[qoSagh]

I could see two soldiers meeting before a battle and greeting each other with "Its a good morning to kill our enemies" or two farmers saying "Its a good morning to get the targs branded"

Much like the saying "Today is a good day to die!" however it would be a stretch to translate this a the equivalent of a human saying Good Day.