Desciptive Verbs and Type Four Noun Suffixes

[El Payaso Malo]

Is it correct to use more than one descriptive verb on one noun? I don't remember seeing it brought up specifically in any of the three books I have. I know that one subject performing two actions is two sentences joined together. I remember a sentence from KTG (SuD 'ej wov) that seems to indicate that descriptive verbs are treated similarly. In fact, I am 90% sure that that is exactly what the chapter on colors indicates, as phrases like SuD Dargh 'ej wov demonstrate.

Do I put the type four noun suffixes like -vam and -vetlh on the descriptive verb modifying a noun or on the noun itself? I know I'm supposed to do it with type five noun suffixes, but it just seems like it would fit with type fours, as well. I have avoided this construction until I have received confirmation with someone more skilled than I. My bet is that I'm not supposed to.

[qurgh_]

When a verb is acting as an adjective, Type 1-4 go on the noun, Type 5 goes on the verb:

Dargh'a'meyqoqvetlh SuDmo'
Because of those so-called green major teas

But, in this case all the suffixes go on the noun, since nether of the verbs are acting as adjectives:

SuD Dargh'a'meyqoqvam 'ej wov
Because of these so called major teas are yellow
Because of these so called major teas are green and bright

This is actually two complete sentences with a conjunction in the middle:

SuD Dargh - the tea is green
wov - it is bright

If you need to use this in a sentence, you add a couple of -boghs:

SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh tlhutlh - He drinks the yellow tea (He drinks the tea that is green and that is bright)

You can throw as many affixes as you like in there now :

SuDchu'bogh Darghqoqvam 'ej wovqu'bogh DatlhutlhvIplaw' - It seems that you are afraid to drink these so-called bright green tea. (It seems that you are afriad to drink these so-called tea that is clearly green and that is very bright)

I guess you could string this out pretty far if you wanted to.

SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh 'ej bIrbogh 'ej jeDbogh 'ej He'bogh vISopQo' - I won't eat the smelly thick cold yellow tea (I won't drink the tea that is green and that is bright and that is cold and that is thick and that is emitting oder)

It's actually not to hard to parse when reading either, although if someone actually said this to me, I'd be lost. 

[El Payaso Malo]

Thanks! So, I had already understood it all properly. But these sentences trouble me:

SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh tlhutlh - He drinks the yellow tea (He drinks the tea that is green and that is bright)

I haven't seen a sentence like this. I would render it as

Hurghbogh 'ej wovbogh Dargh tlhutlh, but to be honest, neither of ours look correct to me (but you ARE the more experienced, so I will defer to you; I just haven't seen any canon examples like these). In my sentence, I could probably use the pronoun 'e' to improve the sentence (SuD 'ej wov Dargh 'e' tlhutlh), but I have been under the impression that a/the subject and the verb must be on both sides. In your sentence, it doesn't look like wovbogh has a subject. But then, I am still getting used to complex sentences.

SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh 'ej bIrbogh 'ej jeDbogh 'ej He'bogh vISopQo' - I won't eat the smelly thick cold yellow tea (I won't drink the tea that is green and that is bright and that is cold and that is thick and that is emitting oder)

This one gets to me because I haven't seen it written or demonstrated in canon that more than one sentence can be linked with 'ej, pagh and the like. I very well could have missed that section or example (if it would be anywhere, I'm expect The Klingon Way. But then, I've only been at this for perhaps a year or so, so I probably have much canon I still need to see to grasp everything.

[qurgh_]

Thanks! So, I had already understood it all properly. But these sentences trouble me:

SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh tlhutlh - He drinks the yellow tea (He drinks the tea that is green and that is bright)

I haven't seen a sentence like this. I would render it as

Hurghbogh 'ej wovbogh Dargh tlhutlh, but to be honest, neither of ours look correct to me (but you ARE the more experienced, so I will defer to you; I just haven't seen any canon examples like these). In my sentence, I could probably use the pronoun 'e' to improve the sentence (SuD 'ej wov Dargh 'e' tlhutlh), but I have been under the impression that a/the subject and the verb must be on both sides. In your sentence, it doesn't look like wovbogh has a subject. But then, I am still getting used to complex sentences.

Here's the quote from Klingon for the Galactic Traveler:

To describe yellow tea (Dargh, "tea"), one must say SuD Dargh 'ej wov ("The tea is SuD and light") or SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh ("The tea that is SuD and light").

SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh is a complete noun phrase and can be used in any sentence in the place of any noun.

SuD 'ej wov Dargh 'e' tlhutlh just doesn't work for me. Let's break it down into the two sentences it is:

SuD 'ej wov Dargh - It is green and the tea is bright
'e' tlhutlh - He drinks that

SuD 'ej wov Dargh 'e' tlhutlh - He drinks that it is green and the tea is bright

I don't think tlhutlh works well with 'e' at all. 'e' seems to work better with verbs like neH (want), Qub (think), Har (believe), etc. Ones that tend to effect actions and not just nouns. Since you can't tlhutlh (drink) or Sop (eat) another action, I'd wager that using 'e' with them would be very rare.

I could have written my phrase:

SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh Dargh vItlhutlh - I drink the tea that is green and that is bright

But since the -bogh phrase has the same noun repeated you can just drop it (as Marc does in the above example). No verb requires a specific noun to be the object or subject, that's what verb prefixes are for. In these cases the verb prefix is 0 (he/she/it - him/her/it).

SuDbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh 'ej bIrbogh 'ej jeDbogh 'ej He'bogh vISopQo' - I won't eat the smelly thick cold yellow tea (I won't drink the tea that is green and that is bright and that is cold and that is thick and that is emitting oder)

This one gets to me because I haven't seen it written or demonstrated in canon that more than one sentence can be linked with 'ej, pagh and the like. I very well could have missed that section or example (if it would be anywhere, I'm expect The Klingon Way. But then, I've only been at this for perhaps a year or so, so I probably have much canon I still need to see to grasp everything.

You can have as many sentences as you like tied together by any conjunction, that's what they are for (just like any other language):

bIQDep vIparHa' 'ej nIm vIparHa' 'ej bIQ vIparHa' 'ej SuDbogh Dargh vIparHa' 'ach qavIn vIpar - I like fish and I like milk and I like water and I like green tea but I dislike coffee.

[El Payaso Malo]

I see. I actually had KTG open in front of me at the time, but I just scanned the page because it was late. That's what I get for doing something halfway. But I have learned more now. Thanks.

Hurghbogh 'ej wovbogh Dargh tlhutlh

My way was correct, though right?

I don't think tlhutlh works well with 'e' at all. 'e' seems to work better with verbs like neH (want), Qub (think), Har (believe), etc. Ones that tend to effect actions and not just nouns. Since you can't tlhutlh (drink) or Sop (eat) another action, I'd wager that using 'e' with them would be very rare.

I thought that 'e' isn't used with neH. Unless you were just referring to the general construction.

[qurgh_]

I see. I actually had KTG open in front of me at the time, but I just scanned the page because it was late. That's what I get for doing something halfway. But I have learned more now. Thanks.

Hurghbogh 'ej wovbogh Dargh tlhutlh

My way was correct, though right?

It's grammatically correct, as far as I know, but it's a little more difficult to understand. You want to get the noun out there as soon as possible, otherwise it could be confusing when spoken, especially on longer phrases:

Hurghbogh 'ej wovbogh 'ej bIrbogh 'ej He'bogh Dargh tlhutlh
...................................................................the listener has to wait until here to find out what's dark, bright, cold and smelly, up until this point it's just vague concepts

Hurghbogh Dargh 'ej wovbogh.... etc etc
................At this point the listener knows your talking about dark tea so they can just add the attributes to the tea as the sentence goes on

I don't think tlhutlh works well with 'e' at all. 'e' seems to work better with verbs like neH (want), Qub (think), Har (believe), etc. Ones that tend to effect actions and not just nouns. Since you can't tlhutlh (drink) or Sop (eat) another action, I'd wager that using 'e' with them would be very rare.

I thought that 'e' isn't used with neH. Unless you were just referring to the general construction.

Yeah, I was talking about the general SAO construction. I guess I should have said "SAO doesn't seem to work well with tlhutlh/Sop/etc, but does seem to work with verbs like neH/Qub/Har/etc".

[tesseraktik]

There is also the phrase from the Warrior's Anthem, yoHbogh matlhbogh je SuvwI' Say'moHchu' may' 'Iw. {The blood of the battle perfectly cleans the warrior who is brave and true.}, suggesting that you can use multiple verbs (perhaps not just stative ones) to describe an object by linking them together with je.
It should be noted that this is prose, but it does make some sense, as je in this case would mean "also".

[El Payaso Malo]

I was under the impression that je linked nouns only. Is this an example of poetic license, or is this allowed in standard usage?

[tesseraktik]

I was under the impression that je linked nouns only. Is this an example of poetic license, or is this allowed in standard usage?

From TKD, page 55:

   The noun conjunction je has an additional function: when it follows a verb, it means also, too.

            qaleghpu' je I also saw you, I saw you too

   As in English, the meaning of such sentences is ambiguous; I and others saw you or I saw you and others. The exact meaning is determined by context.

So, the phrase yoHbogh matlhbogh je SuvwI' {the warrior who (is brave, also is loyal)} doesn't seem completely out of line, but it's uncertain if this is really standard usage.

Also, in the TKD explanation, they only seem to be adding subjects and objects, not actions, so I'm uncertain if jIQuch.  jISey je. would really mean "I am happy, and also excited.", or if it could only mean "I am happy.  I am excited, as others are."

It's also uncertain if you can add verbs in a single sentence, or if you have to create a new sentence:  nIleghpu'.  qaleghpu' je. {They saw you.  I saw you, too.} should work, but I'm uncertain about  nIleghpu' qaleghpu' je. {They and I both saw you.}.

[qurgh_]

Also, in the TKD explanation, they only seem to be adding subjects and objects, not actions, so I'm uncertain if jIQuch.  jISey je. would really mean "I am happy, and also excited.", or if it could only mean "I am happy.  I am excited, as others are."

It's also uncertain if you can add verbs in a single sentence, or if you have to create a new sentence:  nIleghpu'.  qaleghpu' je. {They saw you.  I saw you, too.} should work, but I'm uncertain about  nIleghpu' qaleghpu' je. {They and I both saw you.}.

bIQuch. jISey je - I am happy. I am also excited.
nIleghpu'. qaleghpu' je - They saw you. I also saw you.

pIlegh jIH chaH je - They and I saw you (I think pI-/we-you is right here)

nIleghpu' qaleghpu' je is two sentences, even if you don't have a period in there. The only way to have multiple verbs in a sentence is if you use a type 9 verb suffix somewhere (even SAO is two sentences).

[El Payaso Malo]

It has been a while since I've sat down and read my dictionary. Usually I just look into the section that covers what is vexing me at the time. I'll need to reread it in its entirety.

[Qunchuy]

bIQuch. jISey je - I am happy. I am also excited.

I would translate it I am happy. I too am excited. I don't know of any official examples that tell us we can do it the way you did.

[qurgh_]

bIQuch. jISey je - I am happy. I am also excited.

I would translate it I am happy. I too am excited. I don't know of any official examples that tell us we can do it the way you did.

I guess I should correct my typo, that should be jIQuch (I am happy) not bIQuch (You are happy).

If it was bISey. jISey je it would be "You are excited. I also am excited".

Taking what Qunchuy said, it would be: jIQuch 'ej jISey - I am happy and I'm (also) excited. The also is just in there for the English as the Klingon doesn't need it, but English can either have it or not have it. The sentences "I am happy and I am excited" and "I am happy and I am also excited" convey the same meaning (at least to me).