Klingons and tobacco

[Klythe]

    What might be convincing is to hear from someone who either doesn't smoke in real life, but their Klingon character does, or someone who smokes in real life, but not as a Klingon.  But either way, there is more to it that wether your character smokes or not.   There are reasons people do things and those reasons do matter since the whole point of these forums is to discuss Klingons and their culture in a way that builds up what we know about them, 

    I like to think I am a fairly curious individual(perhaps in both being curious and being so strange as to inspire curiosity in others, he he).  But, from what I understand about Klingons, I don't think that on the average there is the same drive to experiment, theorize and learn the way we do.   Klingons are people, but they are not hyoomins.  People do things for reasons.  Hyoomins have reasons for doing things the hyoomin way, and Klingons have reasons for doing things the Klingon way.  We are trying to explore the Klingon way here.

    So, it does matter that your character smokes, if you can explain a Klingon reason why.  In order to help figure out possible reasons Klingons might smoke, a good place to start is to find out why hyoomins smoke, and analyse those reasons in the eye of what is known and speculated about in  Klingon values and see if they still ring true.   There may be more Klingon reasons which may be obvious or they may be harder to discover.

     Recently, I remembered another hyoomin traditional smoking ritual--   The Congratulatory Stogie.  It used to be far more widely observed, but it continues to be observed by many.  In times of celebration, such as the birth of a child, a financial, institutional, sporting team  or personal success, or to mark the start or end of some certain other kinds of events, smokable tobacco tubes may be distributed to any who wish to partake in the ritual.  The tobacco is smoked together and there is discussion about what efforts were taken, and what 'battles' were won, and what made the event being celebrated possible and/or looking forward to what may happen in the future because of it.  Alternatively this ritual may also be performed with alcohol, such as champaign, wine or beer.

   In fact, we see this ceremony performed with alcohol after Kor's presumed death in his final battle against the Dominion.   It could be a simple coincidence that both Klingons and hyoomins have this ritual, or it could be A fairly common ritual, or perhaps it was a ritual that Klingons recently acquired from Terrans or other non-Klingons.

[K'Gor tai Reshtarc]

K'Gor, judging the behavior of an entire fictional race based on the personal preference of one portrayer of that race, is absurd. The idea that you are Klingon and you smoke therefore Klingons smoke is about as silly as the claim once made by Dr. Science: Bugs make noise, I make noise, therefore I am a bug.

You misunderstand me goSagh! I meant that I am Klingon and I smoke, so I really do not care what other Klingons do or don't do! Do not insult my intelligence again brother!!

[HoS'etlh]

One point that is assumed by some in this discussion is that at some point in Klingon history someone had the idea to burn leaves and inhale the smoke produced. Another assumption is that a plant such as tobacco exists on the Homeworld.

IMOO (nothing humble about it), if any Klingon were to take up the habit, it was a by-product of their association with humans.

Too often human traits, habits and weakness are assumed to have a counterpart in Klingon culture. I believe this is one of those instances.

[qoSagh]

I would think that by reading some of my posts those that wish to would know at least a small bit about my attitudes & opinions. I did not insult anyone's intelligence, what I was commenting on was the attitude. Such attitudes I realize are ones I often share, I meant no ill will to you K'Gor, I simply disagree with you. The good point about forums like these is that we can disagree, the bad part is we are often too far away to do it over a mug of bloodwine.

Back to the topic at hand, I do not know much about the history of humans and smoking. Thus I can not comment on why the idea would come up to dry out a leaf and smoke it in a human. I do however think that if such an idea came up in a Klingon, that it was likely accidental. Possibly due to a lightning strike of a post battle fire, that some tobacco leaves ignited and the smoke was discovered to be favorable. Even though this topic's name only mentions one such plant, at least two have been discussed. This has been more about smoking than about what was being smoked. I do not think it would be all that unreasonable to discuss some plant that was similar to tobacco while not being an exact match that may have developed on the homeworld, or elsewhere in the empire.

By the way I don't smoke in real life, and while I don't smoke as a Klingon, like I said I can see a Klingon with a pipe as not too far a stretch.

[Abbot Nej vIt]

I Seem to Have Lost A Post Here? Have there Been Such Problems Recently? Or Was it Perhaps Removed for Some Reason?

[K'Gor tai Reshtarc]

I would think that by reading some of my posts those that wish to would know at least a small bit about my attitudes & opinions. I did not insult anyone's intelligence, what I was commenting on was the attitude. Such attitudes I realize are ones I often share, I meant no ill will to you K'Gor, I simply disagree with you. The good point about forums like these is that we can disagree, the bad part is we are often too far away to do it over a mug of bloodwine.

Kai goSagh,
We will yet drink together brother. Qapla'!

[Kesvirit]

quoth Abbot Nej vIt 12 29, 2005, 05:08: AM:
I Seem to Have Lost A Post Here? Have there Been Such Problems Recently? Or Was it Perhaps Removed for Some Reason?

I went looking through the moderator logs, and no deletion or move has been recorded. The previous iboard software would occasionally drop a post for no apparent reason, and I fear that whatever {De'wI' pat luDanbogh veqlargh}*  infested the old iboards have made the transition to the new Simple Machine software along with the rest of us. I encourage you to repost if you can remember what you wrote the first time.

quoth qoSagh on 10 28, 2005, 02:07: PM:
The bit about widely appreciated cannabis, is I am afraid nothing more that someones poor attempt at justifying drug use through klindom.

Ironic then, that this thread started with attempts at justifying smoking tobacco through klindom. Everyone has their drug of choice, running the gamut from the morning Starbuck’s stop to the six-pack to any of a number of agricultural products that can be put in a pipe and smoked.


*computer dwelling demons

[Abbot Nej vIt]

Kesvirit,

Ahhh... Well... It was Likely Long and Wordy Anyway...<Chuckle>... So A more Succinct repost Will have to do...

Basically, the Point was that Human Fans are Likely to Justify their Human Opinions Within the Context of Fandom, and Can use those Justifications to Argue Most any Point...

In Klingon Terms If it Is Not Canon, then All it Takes is A Klingon Fan Showing Something being Done to Make it True (If Only for themselves)... So I Was Agreeing with Klythe, in that such an Example as a Non-smoking Fan Playing a Character who Takes the Pipe Occasionally, and Can Give Good Reason for Doing So, or Perhaps the Smoking Fan Who Refuses to Smoke While Costumed in Public Would be Useful...

There is also an Added (Though Very Human), Ethical Issue at Stake here... Which is that Children are Particularly Affected By the Actions Of People in Costumes... We Deffinately Catch their Attention... So Right or Wrong, Deffendable or Not, When a Child Sees us Smoking in Public, Or Holding a Bottle of Guiness we ARE likely to be Remembered by that Child for those Actions... Again Right or Wrong...

[Canis]

This is a very late addation to this topic but since I was not here then, but am here now, I will have to add my two cents now...

Here is a simple cannon fact…

We have seen Klingons in MANY different social functions in trek cinema, from parties and funerals, to judicial hearings and off duty recreation. None were ever shown smoking. The single exception to this is of one klingon inhaling fumes for a religious ritual.   

From this evidence I would gather that smoking is unheard of in social context among Klingons.

The reasons may be largely unknown, but since by the time of “Enterprise” even humans seemed to have largely removed smoking from their culture. I would expect that cross contamination from humans seems to be rather unlikely, with the possible exception of Indian religious ritual as described earlier. This of course begs the question... Are Indians in that future still using tobacco? In the few episodes that I have seen showing Indian smoke house rituals the plants used to create the smoke are never mentioned. The indians of the future may have well discovered better (less harmful) herbs and plants for their religious rituals. 

But anyway, since humans are generally regarded as inferior (and weak) I would not expect klingons to start mimicking their behavior.

In short smoking seems to be an incredibly rare pastime in the Star Trek universe as a whole and has been used in that universe mostly as a story device to show characters as ignorant, indolent or deceitful, these are not klingon qualities, so no, I do not picture klingons using tobacco.

Later

[qoSagh]

Now that I think of it, I don't remember coming across any references to smoking Klingons in the semi-canon of the novels and comic either.

On a side not, We have seen many mugs hoisted by Klingons be they bloodwine or warnog. So I think drinking occupies a slightly different place in that there is canon to back it up. Besides anyone who drinks a big heavy beer like a Guinness is someone I can hoist a mug with.

[Canis]

Klingons do like their drink! For that there is a plethora of evidence. 

I suppose that you might have been able to find a smoking Klingon on a back lot during filming, but I do not think that that counts as a cannon example.

Later