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Author Topic: A Q law' B Q puS  (Read 1275 times)
tlhoy' chenmoHwI'
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« on: 05 10, 2009, 07:54: AM »

This one for the grammarians:
According to TKD the comparitive uses the form A's Q is many B's Q is few. The "A Q law' B Q puS" does not seem to conform to the Object-verb-Subject rule..."A's Q" is a subject as is "B's Q". Would "law' A Q puS B Q" be more appropriate?

Or am I foolishly questioning the traditions of Klingon grammar?
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reH wuq raD
qoHpu' yIbechQo' 'ach qoHpu' yIbechmoH
Qunchuy
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« Reply #1 on: 05 10, 2009, 08:53: AM »

The comparitive and superlative constructions are special formulas which do not follow the general pattern of Klingon sentences. Don't question why. Just learn to recognize and use it.
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tlhoy' chenmoHwI'
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« Reply #2 on: 05 10, 2009, 02:01: PM »

The comparitive and superlative constructions are special formulas which do not follow the general pattern of Klingon sentences. Don't question why. Just learn to recognize and use it.

Fair enough. I just wondered if maybe "there are many of A's Q" was the correct application of OVS i.e. there=subject and A's Q=indirect object.
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reH wuq raD
qoHpu' yIbechQo' 'ach qoHpu' yIbechmoH
QoghtlhIH'u'
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qaStaH nuq? toqDuj vImojchoH?


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« Reply #3 on: 05 11, 2009, 03:54: AM »

The subject-object pronominal prefix does not comply to the OVS rule either.
The OVS rule, the subject-object prefixes and A Q law' B Q puS are coexistent basic grammatical rules for the Klingon language.
The OVS rule applies when subject and object are not embedded in the prefix. And then there is the  toast:\

'IwlIj jachjaj
May you blood sceam!
Here the subject 'IwlIj, your blood precedes the verb as well. Is there an exceptional rule for verbs with the -jaj suffix?
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Qunchuy
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« Reply #4 on: 05 11, 2009, 09:26: PM »

... And then there is the  toast:\

'IwlIj jachjaj
May you blood sceam!
Here the subject 'IwlIj, your blood precedes the verb as well. Is there an exceptional rule for verbs with the -jaj suffix?

There is indeed such an exceptional rule. The verb comes last, putting the suffix at the very end of the sentence. However, it applies only to "ritual toasts", not to every use of -jaj. If you're not raising your HIvje' (cup) when you say it, make sure you use the normal word order.
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QoghtlhIH'u'
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« Reply #5 on: 05 12, 2009, 04:30: AM »

Three other examples from Power Klingon of -jaj with the subject not following the verb:

May the Klingon Empire continue forever.
reH tlhIngan wo' taHjaj.

may the spirit of Kahless live within you.
SoHDaq qeylIS qa' yInjaj.

May the bile of the vanquished fill your hands.
jagh lucharghlu'ta'bogh HuH ghopDuŽlIj lungaSjaj.

I wrote down these texts from the audio so I might be mistaken here and there. If anyone knows better, please correct me.
In the last example the OVS order would be:
jagh lucharghlu'ta'bogh HuH lungaSjaj ghopDuŽlIj  .
which is quite complicated because the object is a verbal expression:
The slime HuH
of the enemy jagh
that someone finished slaying lucharghlu'ta'bogh
Anyway, this shows that the word order is: OSV-jaj if there is an object, which need not be the case as in the first two examples.

Not unreasonable that in certain circumstances certain grammatical rules apply. In English the "toast"-sentence starts with May and in Klingon it ends with -jaj so there is some similarity.
I modified this because I accidentally swapped subject and object: hands contain slime  Sick
I
« Last Edit: 05 12, 2009, 05:41: AM by QoghtlhIH'u' » Logged
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