actually speaking fluent klingon in Holland

[kroki]

Hello everyone out there,

I wonder if there are actually people that can have real conversations in Klingon without falling back to English or another language?
If so, are there any of these living in Nederland?
I would like to learn it so I would also like to have the opportunity to speak with someone.

Kroki

[Qunchuy]

I have had extended conversations in Klingon with more people than I can count on my hands. I know many who can go an entire day speaking nothing but Klingon (assuming the availability of a translator when interacting with restaurant staff, etc.).

The (old, possibly out of date) membership directory on the Klingon Language Institute's web site lists several people in the Netherlands.

Many (most?) of the fluent speakers of Klingon participate in the tlhIngan-Hol email discussion forum hosted by the KLI. (Alas, while the list itself is relatively spam-free, the web archives have been infiltrated by spammers.)

[SoplaHtaHwI']

I have had extended conversations in Klingon with more people than I can count on my hands. I know many who can go an entire day speaking nothing but Klingon (assuming the availability of a translator when interacting with restaurant staff, etc.).

The (old, possibly out of date) membership directory on the Klingon Language Institute's web site lists several people in the Netherlands.

Many (most?) of the fluent speakers of Klingon participate in the tlhIngan-Hol email discussion forum hosted by the KLI. (Alas, while the list itself is relatively spam-free, the web archives have been infiltrated by spammers.)

Not being at all fluent, I have heard from one of those listed that he has practically lost interest. I have yet to get into meaningful contact to either of the others.
If you manage to do so, I am more than willing to set up a Dutch qepHom (small (minor) meeting). I know of one qepHom which has been jokingly dubbed "qepHom'a'" (significant minor meeting) for the fact it tends to be bigger than the annual qep'a' (significant/major meeting)

Please do me the favour and contact me via PM so we might solidify contact.

[kroki]

Thank you, both of you for your responses. I guess I will have to learn to read and write thlingan Hol a little before I even think of having a spoken conversation in it. I am still flabbergasted by all the prefixes and suffixes, but then I realise that even Dutch and Indonesian are full of fixes, pre- and suf- so it really should not be such a big deal.
So I will get back to this topic in a while,


thlingan Hol jIHaD  tumevmoHlaHbe'

Is that correct?
Kroki

[SoplaHtaHwI']

Thank you, both of you for your responses. I guess I will have to learn to read and write thlingan Hol a little before I even think of having a spoken conversation in it. I am still flabbergasted by all the prefixes and suffixes, but then I realise that even Dutch and Indonesian are full of fixes, pre- and suf- so it really should not be such a big deal.
So I will get back to this topic in a while,


thlingan Hol jIHaD  tumevmoHlaHbe'
Is that correct?
Kroki

To show my inaptitude: it does look fine at first glance... I'll have to confirm suffix order and the meaning of tu- though...

let's see... it's pretty poor 8-)
I'm guessing you want to say "I can't stop studying the Klingon language".
You should say "tlhIngan Hol vIHaD vImevlaHbe'
Not sure what the -moH is doing there then though...

Please look for tlhIngan-NL on Yahoo, as that is where I try to concentrate all those Dutch speakers that have an interest in any part of Klingon culture. Be it the Language, the military or the family life.

-moH = cause suffix

[ter'eS]

You should say "tlhIngan Hol vIHaD vImevlaHbe'

tlhIngan Hol vIHad 'e' vImevlaHbe'.

[kroki]

De'meyraj vIyaj
I understand your information

[krustytheclaymore]

I have had extended conversations in Klingon with more people than I can count on my hands. I know many who can go an entire day speaking nothing but Klingon (assuming the availability of a translator when interacting with restaurant staff, etc.).

The (old, possibly out of date) membership directory on the Klingon Language Institute's web site lists several people in the Netherlands.

Many (most?) of the fluent speakers of Klingon participate in the tlhIngan-Hol email discussion forum hosted by the KLI. (Alas, while the list itself is relatively spam-free, the web archives have been infiltrated by spammers.)

I think thats amazing, however isnt the language a little clumsy when tring to say quite simgple things. Im no expert but saying things like we need to take over base C we are being dominated might take a while.

[Kesvirit]

krustytheclaymore:...   however isnt the language a little clumsy when tring to say quite simgple things. Im no expert but saying things like we need to take over base C we are being dominated might take a while.

In simple, Klingon style: Yes. This isn’t due as much to the structure of the language, which is relatively simple, as it is the woeful lack of vocabulary provided. The “clipped Klingon” used in battle simplifies grammar a bit, allowing you to omit certain elements and still make yourself understood. But I’ve found trying to convey actual concepts with the words provided to be an exercise in futility and frustration.

-=- Kesvirit the Konfounded

[ter'eS]

waw' C wIcharghnIS. wIghatlhlu'. "We must take over base C. We are being dominated."  How is that hard to say?

waw' base
wI- we-it
chargh conquer
-nIS must
ghatlh dominate
-lu' "passive"

I've translated pop songs and jokes, written sceenplays, translated Poe.  Others have translated Gilgamesh, the Tao Te Ching,  Shakespeare and Eminem. The KLI used to have lively discussions about all sorts of things on its mailing list, and interesting articles in its publications jatmey Scattered Tongues and QonoS Qo'noS the Kronos Chronicles. I am sorry that you found it frustrating to speak Klingon, but the fault doesn't lie in the language.

[Qunchuy]

krustytheclaymore:...   however isnt the language a little clumsy when tring to say quite simgple things. Im no expert but saying things like we need to take over base C we are being dominated might take a while.

In simple, Klingon style: Yes.

On the contrary: no. There is no clumsiness in waw' wej wIchargnIS, wIghatlhlu'. And note that the only difference between what I came up with and what ter'eS wrote is that I substituted "base three" for "base C".

This isn’t due as much to the structure of the language, which is relatively simple, as it is the woeful lack of vocabulary provided.

The vocabulary is only woeful if you start with idiomatic English and attempt to translate the words. I've found the vocabulary quite capable of expressing a large gamut of concepts -- as long as I don't fall into the trap of trying to express a specific English phrase in order to make my point.

The “clipped Klingon” used in battle simplifies grammar a bit, allowing you to omit certain elements and still make yourself understood. But I’ve found trying to convey actual concepts with the words provided to be an exercise in futility and frustration.

You are of course entitled to express frustration, but please don't call it futile. That you have been unable to communicate using Klingon does not mean it is impossible. If you don't believe in the existence of people who do it regularly, the archives of the tlhIngan Hol email discussion forum contain ample evidence of conversations employing "actual concepts" in Klingon.

I freely admit that there are some concepts which defy translation. There are even some vocabulary-challenged objects that I find popping up in conversation with unexpected frequency, curtains and pockets among them. But when I once wanted to say that explaining the anomalous precession of Mercury's orbit required employing the theory of General Relativity rather than Special Relativity, I found it was not substantially harder to do in Klingon than in English.

[kroki]

The anomalous precession of Mercury explained in Klingon according to General Relativity? Wow! I would like to see that explanation!

[Qunchuy]

The anomalous precession of Mercury explained in Klingon according to General Relativity? Wow! I would like to see that explanation!

I found a fragment of the conversation in an ancient outgoing email log file. I can't pin down exactly when it occurred, but I know it was before 2001. (The first sentence has an error in the Klingon which I have ignored and corrected in the English.)

QIt DIng bavbogh He Hoch yuQmey. wanI'vam qaSmoH tlham le'be'.  pIm "Mercury", 'ach meq 'oHbe' Do'e'. "Mercury" pImmoH chungmoHbogh Hov Sum tlham'e'.

All planets' orbital paths slowly spin. Regular gravity causes this phenomenon. Mercury is different, but it's not velocity which is the reason. It's the nearby star's accelerating gravity that makes Mercury different.

[QorvaS]

Indeed, what is the status of the language these days?


QorvaS