Would a Captain class his ship as a Warrior too?

[ShinRa]

Heh, I know this sounds stupid but I wonder how deeply the warrior mentality runs. During WW2 the USSR apparently gave medals to Tanks and Planes that served well in combat, i'm afraid I don't know how truthful those rumours are.

It's late, give me a chance

[SoplaHtaHwI']

Heh, I know this sounds stupid but I wonder how deeply the warrior mentality runs. During WW2 the USSR apparently gave medals to Tanks and Planes that served well in combat, i'm afraid I don't know how truthful those rumours are.

It's late, give me a chance

With the "different" ranking and honorary system of my club, it happened once (as far as I know) that a ship (which I currently still serve on) got a honorary title...

Warning: the link is in German... Since I recently was made  Webmaster, I will query whether I should/could translate it to English (and Dutch, my native language).

[ShinRa]

Luckily I have a limited understanding of German from my school days...very logical, straightforward language ;]

I should get the gist of the website.

[Klythe]

     The way I see it, Klingons have a much sharper distinction between people and things, and aren't as likely to anthropomorphize non-people things.   Or are they... Hmmm...   If the "elbows" (we call them handles) of a pot take the plural for bodyparts, then there is certainly a linguistic precident for anthropomophization of inanimate objects.

     I suppose if we all agree on whether a ship can be considered a person, we can discuss what sex Klingons would associate their ships with.  Would it be female, like the Western culture naval tradition or male biased, or perhaps more balanced...  What would determine a ship's gender?

[Kehlan]

Klythe, I think it's either Pawns and Symbols or The Final Reflection (or both) that has the catpains referring to their ships as "He" and comments that Klingons think of their ships as male. 

[SoplaHtaHwI']

I think classing a ship as warrior is actually a far cry from anthropomorphising it...
But maybe I am misunderstanding... 8-/

[Klythe]

    As a literary term "Anthromorphization" is another term for "personification", the attribution of traits specific to people to non-people.  That is things like a personality and volition that inanimate objects do not have, but warriors do.   Would they attribute a sex to their ship even?  They might or might not go that far.  Kehlan offers a bit of evidence that it may be common for Klingons to attribute male identities to thier ships, but is there evidence on the other side of the argument?   Does it fit so well that there is no point in considering alternatives?  It is a big empire after all.  BTW, between the two I'd think it would be Pawns and Symbols, I'm having trouble imagining Ford writing that.

    Some ship types would be awkward not to have a female personification...  Although not canon, many games have Klingon fighter carriers or Patrol ship Tenders.  This type of ship would definately lend itself to a female identity, a "mother ship".  Perhaps other ships also might be thought of as female... 

    Alternately another mode of anthropomorphication would be to treat the ship as an extension of the captain and to a lesser extent the crew and/or vice versa.  In Shakespeare's Henry V, and likely his other plays, heads of state were often referred to by the name of their country, ie the King of Norway was often refered to as "Old Norway".   Might this type of thinking be why Klingons tend to think of their ships as male, since most of the captains we have seen are male?

[SoplaHtaHwI']

Thank you for the little explanation of "anthropomophise", Klythe.

I would certainly think the latter form would be an obvious thing for Klingons to do. Without the ship, no crew, Apart from the individual warriors, a ship itself should be able to earn laurels (as has my current ship, in effect).

DIvI' (Federation) ships are known to get called female (take the 'enterpray' itself...), and I'm sure there would be nothing against a Klingon ship to be assumed female. Or would there be?

'enterpray' = Enterprise

ps: may be a topic for a linguistic forum: are "prey" and "prize" related?

[Kesvirit]

With the "different" ranking and honorary system of my club, it happened once (as far as I know) that a ship (which I currently still serve on) got a honorary title...

Warning: the link is in German... Since I recently was made  Webmaster, I will query whether I should/could translate it to English (and Dutch, my native language).

Congratulations on your promotion! }}: )  As you no doubt know, increased power brings with it increased responsibilities.  If the one can find the time, I for one would love to see you put your language skills to use and translate the site into as many languages as you and your staff are able.  Not many Klinfolk are multilingual.  Your site is an excellent reference, and you would be doing a service to all to make it accessible to as many people as possible.

Kehlan:   I think it's either Pawns and Symbols or The Final Reflection (or both) that has the catpains referring to their ships as "He" and comments that Klingons think of their ships as male.

My memory agrees with Kehlan’s, though it bothers me that I cannot remember *which* book makes the distinction.  (Does anyone wish to distinguish themselves and prove their scholarly mettle by looking it up?)

SoplaHtaHwI’:   I think classing a ship as warrior is actually a far cry from anthropomorphising it...

Agreed. Calling a ship a “warrior” may refer to a class of ship designated by its function, along the lines of battleships, frigates, cruisers, destroyers, tankers, barges, tugs/tows... (all examples taken from the US Navy.) Perhaps a “warrior” class ship is designed to transport Marines and shock troops.

I think that the custom of anthropomorphization/personification is one largely peculiar to Humans. Klingons lean to a more pragmatic approach. The issue of gender pronouns aside, I think that a ship would be regarded as aase, a tool to be used to achieve an end, and little more. It works or it doesn’t.  And woe to those responsible for its workings if it doesn’t. This is briefly addressed in ROE. The only ones to become emotionally attached to a ship to assign personality traits to it would be the chief engineer and perhaps their ranking subordinates, for they must know every aspect of the ship in intimate detail. This is bound to take a toll on one’s perspective. (Though far from being Klingon, Montgomery Scott and Kaylee Frye come to mind.) After all, the captain merely gives the orders. It is the engineers who run the ship.

Had anyone encountered Klingons who tended to treat their vessels (or other tools) as people as well as machines? Perhaps such a one has been featured in one of the many novels I haven’t read.

[Klythe]

     I think the reason Terrans are so fond of feminine gender ships, is that they view their ships not as a tool or an extension of the captain and crew, but as a separate entity that is yet inseparable...  A companion or strangely... even a mate...   Kirk has talked of his ship in these terms...   They call this sort of weakness "Sentimentality".

[K'Voth]

I am not sure as to whether a ship would be classed as a warrior or not but i have heard of several (Non Klingon) sorces thinking along the lines of their weapons being extensions of there soul. So maby there is some sort of similar extension of that system. I think that each crew member would indeed have a different perseption of their ship, taking the exappme of an extension of their own being a tactical officer may feel something like that as the ship is his weapon. A captain i guess could possibly veiw it not as another warrior but as something allong the lines of the relationship between a soldier and their horse. However personally I would think of my ship as a fellow warrior and to be treated with respect and dignity.