How Klingons have changed

[Khamron]

When I first started getting into Star Trek, I watched TOS.  Then, Klingons
were sneaky, back-stabbing aliens that didn't care what they had to do to
be the last ones standing.  (Pretty good villains, actually!).  
Now, in TNG and DS9, they are so obsessed with having or regaining family
or personal honor that they will kill themselves for it.  And they weren't
like that before.  
I was just a bit disturbed at the radical change.  
What do you (other fellow Klingon community occupants) think about this?

[Kesvirit]

Fen throughout the galaxy have been trying to answer this question ever since. Even agents within the deepest levels of Imperial Intelligence do not know the answer, but can merely speculate.

At great personal risk I recently came into posession of certain information that may shed some much-needed light on a controversial subject rife with speculation, rumor, and hearsay. My source was a Vulcan researcher who withheld this information to the bitter end. Make of it what you will.

This communication allegedly came from a Usenet conversation in which a long-time Federate Trek fan and historian gave a succinct answer to the following question:

>>I have to wonder what TPTB were on (and where can I get some? Do
you think the Genesis planet evolved some new super-variety of retroactive
hallucinogen?) when they changed the nature of the Klingons - and I'm not
just talking physically - between ST3 and TNG. It's like taking a shelf and
remaning it a golfball with the nothing more than the rationale "because I
said so." I don't think your average three-year-old buys that unless it's
accompanied by a sharp smack. The four-year-old  won't believe it, but will
say they do in order to avoid the slap upside the head. What's the excuse
of the five-and-over crowd? Not that I'm really expecting an answer. But it
is a relevant question I've revisited more than once.>>

"I think what they were on was an ego trip, and you don't want any.
Delusions of godhood.  Reality is whatever we say it is at the moment.  They
thought they could do just anything and that people would just accept it.

"And there was a lot of truth in that, as you point out.  The current
Enterprise group have openly announced that they'll pick the story of the
moment over continuity, if those things should come into conflict.  And in
the old days, they didn't announce, they just did it.  And came up with the
most outrageous things.***

"With the Klingons, basically what happened is that they took the Klingons
and Romulans, and reversed their personalities.  The Romulans used to be
the Japanese but with Roman names.  TNG took their Bushido-like Code of
Honour and transferred it to the Klingons, and made the Romulans into the
conscienceless nasties instead.  I suppose the thinking was that if you're going
to have a former enemy on board, he can't be a complete heavy.  And having a
Romulan crewman would have looked too much like having a Vulcan crewman,
so they used a Klingon instead.  Well, kinda sorta.  He didn't look or act like any
Klingons we'd ever seen in TOS, but he's CALLED a Klingon, and that's just
as good. Heck, he even had a sash like Kor wore in Errand of Mercy (though
granted he wore it over the wrong shoulder).  That's what people will
really care about.

"And they're largely right about getting away with it.  Some people get
incredibly bent out of shape if you dare to criticize the show for
something as trivial as a continuity problem."

For those interested in an emic (meaning roughly "an insider's view" -- click here for more on that and other fun, relevant terms) illustration of this, I recommend reading both The Final Reflection by John M. Ford and  The Romulan Way by Diane Duane. Then compare the societies that you've just finished reading about to what you have seen on the vidscreen since The Great Revision.

I leave the rest open to another time and differing scenarios.

 - Kesvirit

[weslipuqlod]

Kesvirit's quotes illustrate a switching of personalities between the
Romulans and Klingons.  Yet I do not believe such a switch can be
contributed entirely to TNG.  

In the Star Trek: The Magazine, December 2002 issue; an interview with
writer/producer Harve Bennett, confirms that originally Star Trek III was
written using the Romulans as the villians.

Leonard Nimoy convinced Bennett to substitute the Klingons instead.

Three years later, TNG premiered building upon the established contexts
within ST:III and ST:IV.

The character of Worf in TNG was originally designed as a symbol of
"fast-friends working together" as alluded to by the Organians in TOS:
Errand of Mercy.  He was never intended to be a prominent character, only a
regular in a certain amount of shows.  As his appeal increased, so did his
role within the Enterprise and the TNG episodes.  When Denise Crosby
decided to leave it was a natural selection to move the character Worf to
the front.

Much of the current persona of Klingons can be greatly attributed to
influences brought about by Michael Dorn himself as he prepared for the
increasing role of Worf.        

[Klythe]

When I first started getting into Star Trek, I watched TOS.  Then, Klingons were sneaky, back-stabbing aliens that didn't care what they had to do to be the last ones standing.  (Pretty good villains, actually!). 

Now, in TNG and DS9, they are so obsessed with having or regaining family or personal honor that they will kill themselves for it.  And they weren't like that before.  I was just a bit disturbed at the radical change.  What do you (other fellow Klingon community occupants) think about this?

     I think (Kesvirit is going to kill me) that both can be true.  There is
not necessily any contradiction there at all.  Only our demand for simple
50 minute episodic thinking and how it limits the ability to express a
complex culture.   

   Let me put it this way.  Americans in a business environment-  Ruthless
cuthroats who seemingly would sell their own mothers if they could get a
good price for her.  Those same Americans go home and raise a family to be
good right and moral.   In TOS we never got to see Klingons behaving
individualistically (except perhaps for a short time Mara).  They were all
operating cooperatively as members of any military would while they are on
duty.

   In TNG for the most part you see Worf and his family.   Succession and
Birthright and a lot of other family issues that happen inside the empire.
  As with Humans, Klingons try to keep the infighting at home out of site
of our oppenents.  Our troops in Iraq don't argue politics with each other,
not in the face of the enemy.   The same is true for what we have seen of
the Klingons.

[Kesvirit]

 Harve Bennett, confirms that originally
Star Trek III was written using the Romulans as the villians. Leonard Nimoy
convinced Bennett to substitute the Klingons instead.Three years later, TNG
premiered building upon the established contexts within ST:III and
ST:IV.[/quote]Zan weslipuqlod both makes my point for me and provides an
illustration of the Unesnet exchange. Nimoy convinced Bennet to use the
Klingons instead, but none of TPTB bothered to make the changes needed to
follow through on this decision and still stick to established precedents.
It was far easier to leave the plot, script, and characterization as it
was with the Romulans as the bad guys and make a half-a$$ed attempt to
"save it in the mix" by letting the art directors and constuming department
deal with it instead. What we got was a BUM (Bloody Unrecognozable Mess --
with a tip of the keyboard to Chuzat) resembling a transporter accident
involving Romulans, Klingons, and a bag of walnuts.

ST3 made a lot of latinum. When TNG was on the drawing board, TIIC decided
that TOS was too dated and wanted to go after a younger demographic with
more currency to throw away, and ST3 was fresher on the little
toecrunchers' minds. It is of such laziness and greed that credibility,
continuity, and honor are lost. And (media) empires preserved and expanded
upon.

Where does ST4 belong in this arguement? Except for Kiltarc's cameo and the
re-used Genesis-related footage -- for which Paramount had to pay an
emperor's ransom to Industrial Light and Magic -- there was very little
Klingon content. Surgeon McCoy complained about the stolen Bird of Prey's
odor and Scott about the food on board, but I did not give it much
credence. After all, we know how luxury-minded Earthers are...

The
character of Worf in TNG was originally designed as a symbol of
"fast-friends working together" as alluded to by the Organians in
TOS.

That rationale was a mere afterthought, an inspired and
well-played defensive block. The problem with stimulant-induced thought is
that it tends to be impulsive, hit-and-miss, and... episodic. It was a
lucky punch thrown in desperation.

Zan Klythe, your assertion that both can be true is the mark of an
equivocator. It is not until you back it up as well as you have with your
counterproposal that it becomes the mark of a true diplomat. And I would
certainly not kill you for presenting a valid alternative.

There is
not necessily any contradiction there at all. Only our demand for simple 50
minute episodic thinking and how it limits the ability to express a complex
culture.

I would not expect anyone to be able to
express/show/present three hundred years of change in a complex culture in
42 minutes (minus whatever footage is cut for syndication rerun packages).
However, the fact that TIIC cannot even conceive of, let alone stick with,
a bare-bones story arc has been not ony established but openly bragged
about. To co-opt a quote from an otherwise abysmal movie, "They must be
proud of their ignorance, they flaunt it so well."

Let me put it this
way. Americans in a business environment- Ruthless cuthroats who seemingly
would sell their own mothers if they could get a good price for her. Those
same Americans go home and raise a family to be good right and
moral.

That is giving them the benefit of several hundred doubts.
Children learn more from the examples played out around them than from the
words they are told. I suspect that the modern-day robber barons' attutude
that it is perfectly acceptable to pimp Grandma out with the sheep does not
escape their offspring. One can only hope that their younglings have the
internal resources to see that this is a bad example to be following
instead of a good one.

 - Kesvirit

[Klythe]

Children learn more from the examples played out around them than from the words they are told.

    Children do not see how thier parents perform thier work.  Humans are
so good at deception thay can decieve themselves, and refuse to accept the
idea that they are unpleasant people, when they are perfectly capable of
raising nice quiet moral family.   Not every uptight executive takes their
work problems out on their childrem, just as many take thier personal and
family problems out on their employees...

    Even most not-too severely damaged mind can pigeonhole, allies/family,
although the distinction between opponent and enemy made fade.   Healthy
minds draw such distinctions all the time.  I wonder if you have been
exposed to an unusual sampling of unhealthy minds...

[bigtom]

I love TOS, but it took TNG and other shows to show us more than 1
dimensional Klingons.

We tend to reduce our enemies to simplistic terms in order to hate them. I
for one think that the Federation is much stronger WITH the Klingons in it!

[Kapact]

I for one think that the Federation is much stronger WITH the Klingons in
it!

The Klingons are NOT in the Federation



Fleet Admiral Kapact
Commanding Officer IKV Razor Klaw
Chief of Staff Razor Klaw Fleet
Founder, Klingon Order of Scribes

[Kesvirit]

Much of the current persona of Klingons can be greatly attributed to influences brought about by Michael Dorn himself as he prepared for the increasing role of Worf.

So the one holds that the Human Dorn is to blame for the sorry state of Klindom as perceived and emulated by ambitious but misguided aliens? An interesting theory, and a tempting one. But as Emperor of the Paraborg Empire, the blame ultimately rests upon the empty head atop the weak spine of Rick Berman.

I love TOS, but it took TNG and other shows to show us more than 1 dimensional Klingons.

You saw Mara and Kang as one-dimensional? Such sentiments are dangerously close to treason. Your writ of execution will be delayed pending a visit to Sickbay to have your vision tested and reparable defects remedied.

We tend to reduce our enemies to simplistic terms in order to hate them. I for one think that the Federation is much stronger WITH the Klingons in it!

It is an outrage that any Klingon would actually have the Empire subsumed into the Federation! Having insight into and understanding of alien concepts does not require agreement with them. A cessation of hostilities with the Federation may have been necessary to insure the continued existance of the Empire, but I would sooner see it destroyed than see our leaders make tokhe straav'i*of all of us by even suggesting that we not fight to the end to preserve our sovereignty!

For your sake I hope you make it out of Sickbay and across the Neutral Zone before Imperial Intelligence gets wind of your sentiments. Not that reaching the heart of the Federation -- perhaps I should rephrease that "hiding in the gullet of the beast" -- means you are out of reach of the agents of Imperial Intelligence...

 -Kesvirit (who, if you will note in the column to the left, is right behind you... )


*willing slaves

[weslipuqlod]

Hard to argue with zan Kesvirit.  

Do I blame some of the sorry state on Dorn, most assuredly.  Lack of
imaginative writers and inconsistent storylines, yes too.

Profit-driven choices instead of fan-based policy to maintain a franchise
that survives soley from die-hard fan support is a contributor as well.

Obvious disrespect for the true heart and spirit of the Empire does not
help either.  

Am I correct in the interpretation that bigtom is labeling Klingons as one
dimensional simplistic enemies?

(Sounds of blade sharpening fill the hallowed hall)

[Kesvirit]

Hard to argue with zan Kesvirit.

Make a note of the HovpoH, everyone, for this is truly an auspicious event in Klingon history: weslipuqlod and I finally agree on something.

 - Kesvirit

[qoSagh]

Quite allot of the answers to these questions can be found in the two trilogies "Errand of Vengeance" and "Errand of Fury", they deal with TOS Klingons and the culture of the Empire in a state of flux as the Cult of Kahless is gaining more and more followers. It is treated as an old religion that people are returning to, so it kind of melds TOS & TNG nicely. The books also feature Captain Koloth, and his crew in battle against the quintessential villain.

They show that there are some Klingons that are more treacherous and less honorable in their dealings with enemies like the Federation. One of the honorless ones is a Councilor Duras who I believe is the father of the Duras who betrayed Khitomer and grandfather of the Duras that challenged Gowron. So this shows that not everyone followed the path of honor but also adds some depth to the Duras characters.

Strangely enough for a book that seems to connect the generations, there is not a dingle mention of ridges or the physical changes in Klingons nor does it ever describe the uniforms. It seems to just take for granted that Klingons are Klingons. Judging from who they use, I would assume Duras to have ridges and Koloth to not have them (as this is in his first meetings with Kirk) but it is never really stated.

[ShinRa]

Federation? I say we close Homeworld to all outside influences, close the borders, prep the ships..

I'm a bit old guard, can you tell?

As you can imagine, I prefer the Movie (ie 23rd century) depiction of the Klingon Empire, back when we were organised, intelligent, belligerent..you know where i'm going with this.

[qoSagh]

I am no fan of the newer wishy washy Klignons, but even I have to recognize that most of the Klingon characters we have seen have been on TNG and DS9 and due to that they have (both positively and negatively) shaped how we see Our Most Glorious Empire. Most of the character sources I have liked have come from the novels, I think that is in part due to Paraborg's amazing lack of continuity, since they don't seem to care if the written word is in line with any or all of the on screen Treks, the authors have been free to really make the Klingon characters shine in their own light.

[ShinRa]

Klingons are supposed to be intelligent, hi tech (in their own way) "evil" industrial warrior people in my opinion.

I for one LOVE the cold war Soviet analogy.

[torqey]

Yeah, it's wierd. Still, I like the TNG, DS9 and VOY ones better.

[El Payaso Malo]

The change in attitude makes sense to me if you take into account the augment virus from Enterprise. The episode has Klingons with (human) augment DNA in them, and one Klingon remarks something like "I feel fear for the first time." Klingon attitudes and human attitudes are fine, but when you take chunks of them and mash them together, that is where the super negative comes in. Klingons affected with the augment virus looked more human and acted it, as well. When you mix Klingon strength and ambition with human cowardice and fear, you get an unstable and untrustworthy individual. Now imagine an entire race of these people (of course, now this slot is filled by the Romulans; I didn't see any of the original series episode featuring Romulans, so I cannot comment on them). Of course, that's from show to show. From the original series (1960's) to The Next Generation (1980's), the Klingons had changed considerably. In Enterprise (2000's), the changes are attributed to the spread and curing of a virus. From that stand point, it made sense to me. That doesn't explain the choices that the TNG writer's made, but all in all, I like most of them (with the exception of a female being forbidden from serving on the High Council despite having had a female chancellor and Kheylar having been offered a seat by Gowron).

[Andorian Blues]

If we subscribe to the genetic virus explanation offered by Enterprise then that gives a fairly acceptable explanation for the differences; but I'm loathe to admit that genetics are that important to culture. I'd prefer a slightly more complicated explanation: the Klingons who contracted the Augment virus were already part of a breakaway Klingon subculture. Here's my own fanon way of thinking about it, based on the tv shows and movies:

We can deduce from Enterprise that the Klingon worlds most affected by the Augment virus were the ones that border Orion space. The Orions are well known for their culture of debauchery and deviousness. We also know from Enterprise that Orion women have mind controlling pheromones which are often used to expand Orion influence. It is very possible that over many generations the Klingons who settled the Orion border region had become influenced by Orion culture and the Orion way of doing things, some of this likely through the influence of Orion slave girls. Their culture became distinct from other Klingons. This included simple things like ways of dressing, architecture, ship design; but also social attitudes, such as ideas about gender roles (TOS Klingon women are much more submissive than in the TNG era) or the importance of honor.

We also have to remember that this would have happened in an earlier period in the history of the Empire, when warp technology would have been less advanced than in later centuries. This meant that interstellar travel took longer and happened less, resulting in much less contact between Qo'noS and the colony worlds. Without this contact cultural differences became exacerbated.

So when the Augment virus hit it just added to the preexisting underlying differences between border world Klingon culture and the home world Klingons. Many of the border world Klingons would have seen the virus as an opportunity to assert their different cultural values and break away entirely from the old Empire to form their own nation, an entirely separate entity. This would be the Klingon Empire we see in TOS, and would explain all of the different cultural traits these Klingons have. The eagerness of this new Klingon Empire to gain power and influence might also be the origin of the supposed Romulan alliance, in which Klingon ship designs were swapped for Romulan cloaking technology.

It took about a century before the Qo'noS Klingon Empire was able to re-assert itself in the border regions, with the Empire being re-unified at some point in between TOS and TMP. Presumably a big part of this re-unification would have been a cure for the disfiguring nature of the Augment virus. Klingons of the Augment Empire who had proven themselves in battle to be capable warriors, such as Kang, were accepted back into mainstream Klingon culture as a way of easing the transition. Cloaking technology was also reluctantly adopted because of the obvious tactical advantage it gave.

However, as a reaction against the damage caused by undue influence from foreign nations the Empire began to undergo a period of cultural restoration, placing a much greater emphasis on centuries old medieval traditions and having a unified culture throughout the empire. They would also have become extremely distrustful of "weak" alien cultures, even allies like the Federation. This explains the attitude of many Klingons in the Next Generation era. They are very xenophobic, but they have good cause to be considering the events of past centuries.

Where would the Empire go from there? It's hard to say. The movement to restore the old ways may grow weaker over time. A new generation of Klingons could instead find some inspiration in the revolutionary practices of the Augment Empire, re-examining their role in Klingon history and deciding that they did much good as well as bad.  Elements of alien and border-world Klingon culture may start to creep back in to mainstream Klingon practices. However there would also still be many elderly Klingons who had first hand experience of the conflict that time brought to the Empire and would be very reluctant to allow it to return. Council Members and governors who rose to power during the re-unification era by professing conservative, honor-orientated values would also be challenged by this movement.

  Ok, I didn't mean to write that much

[voraq]

I agree with Andorian Blues, although I see some of these events happening slightly differently.

It is clear from the ENT episodes that the unaffected military officials pretty much shunned those with the augment virus. Those with the virus were great in number due to the airborne nature of it ( as stated in the ep) and many were military personal.  I agree that the virus

added to the preexisting underlying differences between border world Klingon culture and the home world Klingons

But I think that the agressive nature of the affected Klin and their anger towards the homeworld military command (for refusing them to ever again see Qo'noS) would have lead them to attempt a revolt. There would have been a Civil War that, given the embarasment at the virus, would have been contained to the Empire.The war would have been as much on the culture difference as the virus. Bit the result would have been the same, war. And it most likely would NOT be restricted to space battles. There would have been many hand to hand battles as well.  As soon as the warriors engaged each other in battle, the virus would start spreading to the unaffected warriors. Even if the "Augument Empire" didn't succeed, the virus would have been spread to the inner worlds and the homeworld. Spreading along with it, the human fear and cowardice. There probably would have been empire wide, or at least military wide, cultural influences from the border "Augment Empire" as well.

This would have been a very dark chapter in Empire history. A chapter which most, if not all, Klingons would rather forget.

[qoSagh]

By the end of the ENT episodes about fusions (er...I mean Augments) Phlox had come up with a way to arrest the virus but not cure it. This is why it did not spread to the entire Empire. Meanwhile because it was airborne new infections did happen and then the medication was administered but the effects were still there.

I can see that just like some frontier positions were probably used for disciplinary reasons, posting to a potentially infected world could be also, especially if the overall existence of the virus was not well known. Although over time, as the number of fusions increased and they began to enjoy some small amount of political clout, I can see the Imperials quarantining some worlds to keep the fusions from increasing their numbers. 

I also expect that finding a cure for this virus was probably the guiding issue in Klingon medicine and science for quite some time. Not only to find a cure in and of itself but also to restore the racial purity of the Klingons. I can actually see fusions and imperials working on the same project but for very different reasons. I am not sue if they worked together or separately but we know that the cure was eventually found.

*** Of course we also know that the superior Klingon technology was employed to wipe the minds and memories of the federation and all their computer banks for a second time after the cure was found. This explains why despite revering Kirk, Sisko and his crew had no idea what the Klingons who fought Kirk looked like. Much like Kirk was unable to see what the Klingon from Broken Bow looked like when he supposedly remembered Kahless.