Lursa's child?

[Kesvirit]

In the TNG episode "Firstborn", B'Etor says that the glyphs on the assasin's knife represent the Duras family as indicated by the symbols, one for each member -- Ja'Rod(?), B'Etor, Lursa, Lursa's child. Does anyone know where I can find a .jpg or rendering of those symbols?

Lursa was then offscreen for what was supposed to have been "two years" while rebuilding the family fleet. My viewing of TNG and DS9 were sporadic at best, so I turn to my fellow Klinfolk to fill in the blanks in both the timeline and the specifics. How much time is supposed to have passed between "Firstborn" and her next on-screen appearance on DS9?  And more importantly, what happened to the child she had just conceived?  Was it ever mentioned again, perhaps in a novel somewhere, or was it just a handy plot device to be used and forgotten?  

Do we ever find out who the father was and how this played into the political situation?  Perhaps Lursa, as head of the Duras family, was trying to forge an alliance with another powerful House via the child that would grant her wealth and a modicum of respectability with her enemies.  If it were stashed away somewhere safe ala Aethelnor ("Pawns and Symbols") when Lursa was killed onboard her command ship in the movie "Generations", I am assuming that Lursa's child would have inherited leadership of the House, leaving the storyline open for all sorts of intrigue. Anyone care to speculate what would happen?

 - Kesvirit

[voraq]

Kesvirit;

The gap between the Duras sisters' appearance in TNG and DS9 is not quite two years.  The order of appearance in the shows, however, is backwards.

The TNG episode 'Firstborn'  was in the 7th season of TNG and was the sixth last episode of the season.

The Duras sisters were in only one episode of DS9, the third episode  of the first season, titled 'Past Prologue'.  So I guess being that their appearance in DS9 was in the begining of the 6th year of TNG and their appearance in 'Firstborn' was at the end of the 7th year, we can figure that they are a little less than two years apart.

There was not any mention of Lursa's child after 'Firstborn' (unless in the 7th season of DS9--which I doubt).  It is very possible that Lursa gave birth to her child before the events in Generations, because 'Firstborn' was the 6th last episode and 'Generations' was at aproximately the same time as the 10th episode of Voyager.  I may be wrong but I think that there is at least a 9 month gap in the timeline for Lursa.  And as for the child being the heir to the House of Duras, how would that work?

Would the Empire make that child the rightfull heir(being that the child is legitimate)?  Or would Toral be the rightfull heir because he is the Oldest surviving direct decendant of Ja'rod?  Would Toral's illigitimacy be a factor in who rises to run the House?

[Kesvirit]

quoth voraq The gap between the Duras sisters' appearance in TNG and DS9 is not quite two years. The order of appearance in the shows, however, is backwards.
The TNG episode 'Firstborn' was in the 7th season of TNG and was the sixth last episode of the season.
The Duras sisters were in only one episode of DS9, the third episode of the first season, titled 'Past Prologue'.

Ah. My thanks to you for the clarifications.

I may be wrong but I think that there is at least a 9 month gap in the timeline for Lursa.

I am unclear as to the amount of time passed between "Firstborn" and (the movie) "Generations".  Apparently the rest of fandom is, too:  such dates I have found only give a calendar year or spring from conflicting Federation-based stardate systems. As far as I can tell, the time between the two is just over one Earth year.

Why do you emphasize there is "at least a nine month gap" in time?  Are you confusing the gestation period for a full-blooded Imperial with that of an Earthbound Human? That is most unfortunate.  You should consider a transferred to a posting in Imperial space. An understanding of the physiology and customs of a host culture is a requirement for those serving in the Diplomatic Corps. Overassimilation into the surrounding culture, however, is a very real risk that too many do not take seriously.  It can have grave consequences, including but not limited to dismissal from one's post in shame and being handed over to the Thought Masters of medicine for re-programming.  Do Not Let This Happen To You. }}; )

And as for the child being the heir to the House of Duras, how would that work? Would the Empire make that child the rightfull heir(being that the child is legitimate)? Or would Toral be the rightfull heir because he is the Oldest surviving direct decendant of Ja'rod? Would Toral's illigitimacy be a factor in who rises to run the House?

Upon the death of Duras, de facto leadership of the House fell to Lursa as Ja'Rod's oldest surviving offspring. If the right of succession goes from eldest child to eldest child, Lursa's firstborn (and given the events of "Generations", only) would inherit her position.  Whether or not "the Empire" would agree with this is immaterial. Lursa lead the House, the faction that it heads, and its forces.  She was at the head of its fleet and calling a battle from the captain's chair upon her death.

Ja'Rod dishonored himself with treasonous act during the Khitomer disaster.  Therefore his entire family was to have borne his disgrace for the next three generations.  Generation #1 would be Ja'Rod's children: Duras, Lursa, and B'Etor. Generation #2 would be their children, Toral (via Duras) and Lursa's child. So there is one more generation after that to go before Ja'Rod's descendents would be in the clear; the legitimacy of Lursa's child is irrelevant. The whole subplot about Toral having to challenge for his late father's Council position due to his illegitimacy was utterly pointless, staged for the cameras and to satisfy the bloodlust of the audience.  Even had he won and been oficially resolved, there was no way a naive adolescent such as Toral could retain the leadership of a House, a political faction, or a Council seat.

The Klingon political machine is a volatile beast.  Today's rules may be heresy tomorrow, and honor plays a distand third in it all behind the quest for power and political expediency. Thus much of this post is speculation.  If Lursa's child's father were a powerful ally of Gowron, or perhaps one of Martok's brood, I suspect that all would have forgiven, Ja'Rod's role in the Khitomer massacre forgotten, and the entire family reinstated.

-=- Kesvirit
 

[Kesvirit]

weslipuqlod has stepped forward to provide sketches of both the Duras family crest found on the assasin's knife (on the left) and the crest of the House of Mogh (on the right, also from "Firstborn") for comparison. I have only now found a way to make them fit into the alloted space. }}:-\  They come from Star Trek Next Generation: The Continuing Mission, Tenth Anniversary Tribute by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens,  ISBN: 0-671-87429-2.
weslipuqlod, {qatlho'}*, and I will add this post to your total.

Of all the linefounders out there, surely there must be some with knowledge of cyphers, heraldry, and/or semiotics who can determine what and/or whom the different symbols represent?

-=- Kesvirit

*I thank you.

[tmk1000]

(this is just my theory)do you think the son might assume a new house(like Worfs "ex"brother Kurn)just untill he came of age to claim it??
just a theory

[Kesvirit]

I do not believe that the gender of the child was mentioned; we cannot assume it is male. (Does anyone have the DVD and the inclination to verify this?) But the Sisters Duras had many powerful followers.  It is not unreasonable to believe that one of their allies took responsibility for the child's care while its mother pursued her cause, and continued to raise it after her death.

One wonders, though, what will be left of the House by the time the child is old enough to assume leadership. How will this child turn out? What values and political views will its foster parents try to instill? Will they be successful?

And who is the father?  If he is still alive, he may wish to claim the child and raise it as part of his own line. I do wish Pocket would run a DNA analysis and put the results in the hands of a skilled writer.

-=- Kesvirit

[Kaz Son of Maktan]

I just found this line of discussion, and it is intriguing. I would almost bet that when the day comes for Paraborg- I mean Paramount- to start up the TV Franchise again (preferable with a Klingon based storyline!) that this heir to the House, be it a son or daughter, will be causing a ruckus with the Empire and Starfleet in the 25th century!