Phrase Translation: "Human by birth, Klingon by choice"

[LDWalter12]

nuqneH,

I need help translating a phrase:

Human by birth
Klingon by choice

Quapla'

LDW


[Edit -- changed title thread]

[Klythe]

     Well... here is my stab-with a table knife, since I wouldn't claim the skill implied by a weapon.


     I was about to suggest that we might be able to get away with something as simple as below, but it wouldn't feel good about it since in "I was born a Human", Human is not simply a direct object, this sentence is probably shorthand for "I was born as a Human".
Human jIbogh
Human  I-born
I born a Human. 

In back-translating the above, I think I understand what the direct object should be, and we can rephrase it to that
Human bogh SoSwI' or maybe more accurately Human mubogh SoSwI'
Human born Mother-my                                  Human she/me-born Mother-my
My mother gave birth a Human                         My mother gave birth to me as a Human


The second part I'm a bit more sure of

tlhIngan jIH.  'e' vIqap
Klingon  I{am}.  That I/it-insist.
I am Klingon.   I insist.


    I chose insist, even though there is a word for chose, because it is not a simple choice as if it was something offered to you.  Insisting that you are Klingon is more likely to show that you understand being Klingon is not easy, and therefore may earn you more respect from a Klingon you may say this to.

[Jon]

Surprisingly, these ideas are hard to translate.

I understand that bogh is stative, so it translates as be born. So jIbogh means I am born.

For example from TKW:
    bogh tlhInganpu', SuvwI'pu' moj, Hegh.
    Klingons are born, live as warriors, then die.

I would translate
    My mother gave birth to me.
as
    muboghmoH SoSwI'

I'm not sure about that indirect object, Human, either. There is the "prefix trick", where the verb prefix does not agree with the object, so the object of the verb prefix becomes the indirect object. A canonical example is
    ghIchlIj qanob
    I gave (to) you your nose.

So perhaps:
   Human muboghmoH SoSwI'
   My mother gave birth to me, a Human.


Another way of putting this would be to ignore the idea of "birth" and use aspect:
    Human jIHpu'.
    I was a human.

[LDWalter12]

Idea:

Would it change if we used "Terran by Birth"  as I was just listening to "Conversational Klingon" and remembered the Klingon word for Terran is (forgive the spelling) tera' ngan but I am also remembering (it has been a long time since I spoke Klingon - a professional paintball team I played on spoke it on the field as code in the 90's) that the term is also a slight insult.

Klythe:    I chose insist, even though there is a word for chose, because it is not a simple choice as if it was something offered to you.  Insisting that you are Klingon is more likely to show that you understand being Klingon is not easy, and therefore may earn you more respect from a Klingon you may say this to.

I like that.  Along the lines of "I am Klingon.  If you do not believe me, a demonstration can be arranged..."

Planning on putting this on the back of my Hummer H2.  It should be fun...

Quapla'

LDW


Edit -- attributed quote:

Code:

[quote]Klythe:    I chose insist, even though there is a word for chose,.... [/quote]

[LDWalter12]

Doing some more reading:

Would 

Jibogh tera' ngan
tlhIngan jIH.  'e' vIqap

Be correct?

LDW

[Klythe]

Would 

Jibogh tera' ngan
tlhIngan jIH.  'e' vIqap

Be correct?

    Close.  First off, watch the capitalization in the first part.  Capital letters were chosen first of all to be more compatible with a phonetic alphabet used by linguists, but also to remind the reader that the letters don't use the same sounds they most commonly do in English.  I is the short i in bit, never a long i in pie or giant.   H is not a sound present in English, but it is the ch in the German composer, Bach, Scottish Loch Ness as well as in the Hebrew Hutspah or Hanukkah.  When in doubt, make the sound you make when you clear your throat and it will be much closer than if you used H in English.
  And tera'nagn is a single word, the same as tlhIngan.  -ngan being a suffix meaning something similar to "inhabitant".   

jIbogh tera'ngan and jIbogh Human are grammatically the same.  Which is to say they might be passible, but might not be entirely correct.  Since you are going for a slogan or saying, a simplified grammar is probably just what you are looking for, since the orginal English didn't come in full sentences either.  Jon and I are just a bit wary as we are striving for as correct and proper Klingon as we can manage in our advice.

I like that.  Along the lines of "I am Klingon.  If you do not believe me, a demonstration can be arranged..."

 
     I like to base my translations to be based more on "How would a Klingon say it?" rather than "How would I say it in Klingon?"   Of course, I would like to think for me the two are not so far apart.  I do not doubt there are some who think I am arrogant.

--  P.S.  I use bold for Klingon text as sort of a pun, "Klingon is supposed to be spoken boldly!"   But it also marks it and sets it off from the other text nicely.

[LDWalter12]

Jon and I are just a bit wary as we are striving for as correct and proper Klingon as we can manage in our advice.

Appreciated.  I figured I could hack something together, but wanted to be as correct as possible.

So:

Jibogh tera'ngan
tlhIngan jIH.  'e' vIqap

Would be acceptable?  I don't want to end up having to pummel some federation geek when they say "That's not Klingon!"

Then again, a demonstration -could- be arranged...

LDW

[Jon]

In Klingon, the word order is reversed, so jIbogh tera'ngan (note the capitalisation) means Terran, I am born.

How about
   Human puq jIHpu'
   I was a human child.
or
   jIQupDI', Human jIHpu'.
   When I was young, I was a human.
?

It's hard to translate some ideas into Klingon because of the limited vocabulary. For example there are no words for birth or childhood. You may have to compromise on this one...

[LDWalter12]

Actually "Terran, I am born.  I am Klingon.  I insist" works pretty well.

Understood about limited vocabulary.  I appreciate the help.

LDW

[Qunchuy]

Here's my favorite way to render it:

boghpu' Human A human has been born.
chenta' tlhIngan A Klingon has taken form (intentionally).




[Edit -- changed post title]

[Qurngan]

Well, how would you really say it if you were a Klingon?

Human jIHlaw'pu', tlhIngan jIHchu'lI' Apparently I was human, but now, I am obviously Klingon.

I think that would be a bit brazen as if it is a response to a challenge or insult of someone calling you a human, you call into question the validity of the insult, and then negate it by saying that you are so obviously Klingon that any further talk should lead to a direct challenge of fact. It's arrogant and self-assured, confrontational, and sarcastic, most importantly, it's curt.

The idea of choice becomes implied, if it is intentional and continuous, then you obviously chose to do it, the apparent perfective contrasted implies that you were either never REALLY human, or that  it wasn't your choice. Thus you get the core idea without the idiomatic phrasing, and you maintain the simplicity: Human by birth, Klingon by choice. Of course, in this case traduttore, traittore, but can that be helped?

Please note, it's been 2 years since I spoke a word of Klingon, so I am relearning the entire language, and admittedly, I hadn't completed my learning the last time, so this entire post could be a gross violation of community standards and language conventions, if so, please don't hesitate to help me learn by pointing out flaws in my use, or any pointers from established canon that I may not be aware of.